Immigrants 'do not get unfair access to social housing'

[Jeff Robinson]

But it is just refugees who get preferential treatment. Non-refugee immigrants are no more likely to get a council house than anyone else, despite their comprising a disproportionate number of the poorest of society. If they even got equal treatment, you'd expect them to be over-represented. That they are simply equally represented suggests to me that they are at a disadvantage - for the reason tarannau gives, that those born here are in fact at an advantage.

I cited research from the IPPR the other day that suggests that migrants to the UK over the last five years make up less than two per cent of the total number of people in social housing. In comparison to other factors like the selling of council stock it's a statistically neglient factor in the housing shortage. Unsuprisingly Durruti dismissed the findings out of hand as he does with all research that contradicts his pre-existing thesis.

Butchersapron's link earlier in the thread is worth a read.

 

[durruti02]

they never will, just like they will never tell you what should be done to reduce immigration .. durretti's preferred tactic is to go on and on about it on the internet

why lie? it does you no credit .. you have read my threads so you know this is not true

i have proposed over and over the issue is about the employment .. i argue that the trade unions should demand and force that all employment should be allocated locally .. that the state should invest massively in work that currently we employ migrants to do i.e. subsidise and improve conditions in agriculture, massive investment in health professions, stop all outsourcing and have public sector employ local kids/apprentices etc

and btw i argue this in my union and shop stewards committee to universal agreement from white and BME

 

[durruti02]

durruti, either you are stupid and cannot understand simple statistics, or you are intentionally twisting them to suit your anti-immigrant agenda and you are indeed, as goldene says, a racist cunt.

FGS read the report!! you have missed the point entirely

 

[durruti02]

I cited research from the IPPR the other day that suggests that migrants to the UK over the last five years make up less than two per cent of the total number of people in social housing. In comparison to other factors like the selling of council stock it's a statistically neglient factor in the housing shortage. Unsuprisingly Durruti dismissed the findings out of hand as he does with all research that contradicts his pre-existing thesis.

Butchersapron's link earlier in the thread is worth a read.

jeff what % of housing allocations in that period does that 2% make up?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

jeff what % of housing allocations in that period does that 2% make up?

What difference does that make? What percentage of those in greatest need are immigrants? What you suggest - creating a second-class citizen category based on place of birth - is to me and many others abhorrent.

 

[smokedout]

why lie? it does you no credit .. you have read my threads so you know this is not true

i have proposed over and over the issue is about the employment .. i argue that the trade unions should demand and force that all employment should be allocated locally

oh yeah i forgot about that, what counts as local

 

[glenquagmire]

it is clear the majority of uk born with housing needs, have LESS housing need than non uk born - smaller families , better current housing etc ..

So how come the same proportion of UK borns are in social housing as non UK borns who have been here over 5 years?

 

[Jeff Robinson]

More recent research from the National Housing Association:

Migrants jumping the queue for social housing is a ‘myth’, new figures reveal

Claims migrants are increasingly jumping the queue for affordable housing at the expense of local people were today dismissed as a ‘dangerous myth’ as new figures revealed that the proportion of social homes going to non-UK residents is consistently less than 5%.

The National Housing Federation, which compiled the data, said around 4.6% of housing association lettings in England went to migrants last year – and the figure was virtually identical the previous two years.

The Federation, which represents England’s housing associations, said it was publishing the figures to dispel the myth – perpetuated by extremists – that immigrants are getting social homes ahead of local people.

The controversial issue hit the headlines yesterday when the Government announced changes to the way social housing is allocated.

The Federation supports changes to the allocation system, which it believes will make access to social housing fairer, but hit out at those who have deliberately mislead people into thinking migrants were getting a better deal.

Housing associations provide around two million social homes in England, but in 2008/9 just 4.6% of new lettings last year went to non-UK citizens.

Of the social rented homes that housing associations have let each year over the last three financial years, non-UK nationals gained access to:

· 4.6% of homes in 2008/9

· 4.4% of homes in 2007/8

· 4.4% of homes in 2006/7.

Federation director Ruth Davison said the figures showed that the perception that migrants get unfair access to social housing is wrong.

Ms Davison said: “Over the last few years, extremists have created a dangerous myth that migrants routinely gain unfair access to social housing.

“Our figures show that this is a falsehood, and it is a falsehood that must be confronted.”

She added: “The poisonous housing myth can only damage community relations, racialise the housing debate, and generate yet more support for the extremists.”

http://www.housing.org.uk/default.aspx?tabid=212&mid=828&ctl=Details&ArticleID=2248

 

[littlebabyjesus]

jeff what % of housing allocations in that period does that 2% make up?

I presume you know that until just a few years ago, emigration had been greater than immigration in the UK since the end of WW2?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

The poisonous housing myth can only damage community relations, racialise the housing debate, and generate yet more support for the extremists.

durruti, this is the truth of the statistics.

I say to you the same as I said to brasicritique: As a self-styled defender of working class interests, you should be the most vocal of all in confronting this myth. Shame on you for not doing so.

 

[durruti02]

I presume you know that until just a few years ago, emigration had been greater than immigration in the UK since the end of WW2?

yes .. relevance?

 

[durruti02]

just out of interest any of you on the waiting list?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

yes .. relevance?

Of the total number of people in social housing, around 2% of them came to this country during a time when immigration was greater than emigration.

That's the fucking relevance.

 

[durruti02]

durruti, this is the truth of the statistics.

I say to you the same as I said to brasicritique: As a self-styled defender of working class interests, you should be the most vocal of all in confronting this myth. Shame on you for not doing so.

LBJ IF only refugees get housing who are the almost 1 million non UK born in social housing?

 

[durruti02]

Of the total number of people in social housing, around 2% of them came to this country during a time when immigration was greater than emigration.

That's the fucking relevance.

you've got his stats wrong unless i am wrong he noted that 2% of the total had only been here 5 years .. actually that is a lot .. 150-200k

 

[durruti02]

oh yeah i forgot about that, what counts as local

if you has kids who need jobs and housing you would know

 

[littlebabyjesus]

just out of interest any of you on the waiting list?

Don't personalise this. I spent over 10 unsuccessful years on the waiting list. I was told in no uncertain terms that there was NO PROSPECT of me being allocated a place, and with no special needs it would take me 200 years to accumulate enough points.

Who did I blame for this situation? The other poor fuckers on the list? NO FUCKING WAY.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

if you has kids who need jobs and housing you would know

answer the fucking question.

 

[durruti02]

durruti, this is the truth of the statistics.

I say to you the same as I said to brasicritique: As a self-styled defender of working class interests, you should be the most vocal of all in confronting this myth. Shame on you for not doing so.

LBJ it is you who have been duped .. do you really think hosuing is FAIR??? lol

are you a thatcherite? so why do you believe that housing policy is any differrent from all their other policies???? .. it is designed for a mobile work force (post fordist) as mass social housing was designed for a stabile mass industrial (fordist?) society

.. there is NO racial element to this (and it is indicative as it is sad that two posters have already descended to 'racist cunt') .. it is to look through the stats and see how this country is run .. and that it does NOT benefit the w/c

and i ask again how if it is only refugees that get housed how come nearly 1 million non uk are in social housing while significantly more (BME as well as white) remain on the hosuing waiting lists

 

[glenquagmire]

and i ask again how if it is only refugees that get housed how come nearly 1 million non uk are in social housing while significantly more (BME as well as white) remain on the hosuing waiting lists

Because they've been through the same procedures, with the same rules, as UK born citizens. And the same proportion of them has been successful in getting housing.

And yes, I'm on the list, but have no expectation of ever getting a place.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

You're conflating two separate issues: the depletion of the social housing stock and the process used to allocate the remaining stock.

As for your assertion about mobile workforce, you are wrong again. For a mobile workforce, you need people renting. Thatcher's policies encouraged buying, which makes for a less mobile workforce. This is one of the more contradictory points of Thatcherism.

You and other anti-immigration types on here always seem to descend to accusing those who are not anti-immigration of neo-liberalism. It's pathetic.

 

[Silver_Fox]

Durutti I don’t get your point. You keep saying the immigration has an impact on social housing. Obviously it is a factor but as was pointed out on the other thread the increase of 1.7 million immigrants in the last 40 years is not anything that major. The population in the UK went up by 12 million from 1901to 1941.

But all that aside the answer is build more council housing, and a lot of it, given that it’s been decimated by over 50% over the last 30 years. At the moment homeless families, regardless of origin, get priority. Do you think that homeless families shouldn’t be the top priority? What else do you want, children on the streets?

What else do you suggest as a solution? Because while there is a massive shortage of social housing tinkering with stuff like sons and daughters just prevents false solutions and is duping people into thinking it will make a difference.

Also as for low wages and terms and conditions these can be undercut by either internal or external migration. The answer is strong trade unions, again what else do you think should be done?

hence we have millions of migrants who we as a community and society do not need

That’s debatable in terms of the skills and talent that are brought into places like the NHS with short term shortages, but that aside what about the rights of the migrants who want to come here. Again you don’t seem to have any answers. Immigration is a fact of life. I’d say have strong trade unions and a mass build of social housing.

Others would say build up the borders and maybe throw people out.

You don’t seem to agree with the second set of ideas so what else do you suggest.

 

[durruti02]

answer the fucking question.

i've done it a million times before .. local is as local as it can be .. why put the kids of afro-carib health worker migrants on the dole while we import and house health workers from the phillipines ( or finland as diane abbot complianed) ??

it is fucking insane ..

do you live in a w/c area? do you live in an area as i have done for 25 years where most black kids have no job nor any housing possibilities?? where you and they see migrants exploited and housed and you lecture people like me that everything is FAIR?? taking the piss

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Durutti I don’t get your point. You keep saying the immigration has an impact on social housing. Obviously it is a factor but as was pointed out on the other thread the increase of 1.7 million immigrants in the last 40 years is not anything that major. The population in the UK went up by 12 million from 1901to 1941.

As a point of information, net migration in the UK between 1945 and around 2000 was negative - more people left these shores than arrived. The slight increase in the overall size of the population came in spite of this fact, not because of it.

 

[durruti02]

Because they've been through the same procedures, with the same rules, as UK born citizens. And the same proportion of them has been successful in getting housing.

And yes, I'm on the list, but have no expectation of ever getting a place.

i ask you the same question .. after 30 years of neo liberalism are you trying to tell me that housing is FAIR?? that is is designed to help the most needy? instead of helping a neo liberal economy???

 

[littlebabyjesus]

i ask you the same question .. after 30 years of neo liberalism are you trying to tell me that housing is FAIR?? that is is designed to help the most needy? instead of helping a neo liberal economy???

Housing is neither fair nor 'helping a neo-liberal economy'.

 

[durruti02]

Durutti I don’t get your point. You keep saying the immigration has an impact on social housing. Obviously it is a factor but as was pointed out on the other thread the increase of 1.7 million immigrants in the last 40 years is not anything that major. The population in the UK went up by 12 million from 1901to 1941.

But all that aside the answer is build more council housing, and a lot of it, given that it’s been decimated by over 50% over the last 30 years. At the moment homeless families, regardless of origin, get priority. Do you think that homeless families shouldn’t be the top priority? What else do you want, children on the streets?

What else do you suggest as a solution? Because while there is a massive shortage of social housing tinkering with stuff like sons and daughters just prevents false solutions and is duping people into thinking it will make a difference.

Also as for low wages and terms and conditions these can be undercut by either internal or external migration. The answer is strong trade unions, again what else do you think should be done?

That’s debatable in terms of the skills and talent that are brought into places like the NHS with short term shortages, but that aside what about the rights of the migrants who want to come here. Again you don’t seem to have any answers. Immigration is a fact of life. I’d say have strong trade unions and a mass build of social housing.

Others would say build up the borders and maybe throw people out.

You don’t seem to agree with the second set of ideas so what else do you suggest.

SF mate housing is irelevent .. it is employment that matters .. and please you also read the report .. it quite clearly illustrates there has been a massive increase in immigration in recent years and a significant % of these have got social housing, in a period when there is massive housing demand form those already living here

 

[smokedout]

if you has kids who need jobs and housing you would know

what a daft thing to say

its your policy, you argue for it, so lets examine it

whats local, within ten miles, 50, 100?

and what counts as being local, how long do you have to have lived there?

will there be any exceptions, such as refugees, people fleeing violent relationships, students, ex-prisoners?

would i have been allowed to move to london back when i was 18 or would i have to have slit my throat in the shitty bedsit i was in which felt like the only alternative at the time?

its a fucking daft idea in practice

 

[durruti02]

Housing is neither fair nor 'helping a neo-liberal economy'.

are you are a thatcherite?

 

[durruti02]

what a daft thing to say

its your policy, you argue for it, so lets examine it

whats local, within ten miles, 50, 100?

and what counts as being local, how long do you have to have lived there?

will there be any exceptions, such as refugees, people fleeing violent relationships, students, ex-prisoners?

would i have been allowed to move to london back when i was 18 or would i have to have slit my throat in the shitty bedsit i was in which felt like the only alternative at the time?

its a fucking daft idea in practice

so what we have now works? you like seeing poor africans who can barely speak english cleaning teh streets being paid a pittance by WASP scum?? you think it acceptable that there is 50% youth BME unemployment where i live??????????