Imagine it's 1880, you're a Jew in Poland

[Dissident Junk]

This is quite an interesting question.

I'd have gone to the US, I think, kept my head down and tried to become as American as possible - even though it would be (what?) 60 years before I would be socially accepted as a part of white American society.

But, I guess, I don't believe that being very stubborn about your roots is a good way to go if you are going to be a long term migrant. Such attitudes have caused no end of problem in my family - economically, socially . . .

 

[astronaut]

Astronaut is a "her"?

Astronaut is a he, but is it relevant?

Is Moono proving to be a male chauvanist as well as a racist?

 

[astronaut]

I've called him/her "astroturf" and never got a complaint...odd.

Why bother complaining? Would it help?

 

[Lock&Light]

Why bother complaining? Would it help?

Nino calls me worse things than 'astroturf', but I never complain as it is he that gets shown up by such behaviour, not me.

 

[nino_savatte]

Why bother complaining? Would it help?

Well, that wee reactionary shite Lock&Light seems to think so. But then he would because he's a shitstirring wee cunt....and a coward who rides in on the coattails of another.

As for you, who cares? All you can do is tell us all that we're a bunch of "anti-semites" for criticising your beloved Israel.

 

[moono]

Is Moono proving to be a male chauvanist as well as a racist?

I'm neither. Demonstrate that I'm 'racist' or stfu.

That will be stfu then, because there is NO WAY that you, or any Zion-scrubbing tar-brusher like you could demonstrate the undemonstrable. Try it. You'll see.

 

[dylanredefined]

Head to the states sharpish .At least there your children have a chance at a better life .Well it would be a wise move for any pole considering what happens to poland in the 20th century .

 

[nino_savatte]

So why has astronaut seized upon Poland? What about Lithuania? Things weren't exactly brilliant there either. Many Lithuanian Jews headed for this country and...Ireland.

 

[spring-peeper]

i'm sorry, but what does that mean?

had i been a jew in 1880s eastern europe i think i might well have emigrated to the usa. everyone else was doing it.

ohhh - A "The Jewish flight out of ...." thread Haven't had one of those in a while.

Next up on the table -> Poland!!!

hmmm - the Jews seem to move around a lot

 

[tangentlama]

...goes on for another 999 pages...

 

[tangentlama]

astronaut hasn't provided evidence for his STATEMENTS ABOUT URBAN75 yet.

suggest he does, pronto....

 

[astronaut]

As for you, who cares? All you can do is tell us all that we're a bunch of "anti-semites" for criticising your beloved Israel.

I don't think I ever said 1) that you're anti-semitic, or 2) criticized the substance of your criticism of Israel, only the nature of your criticism.

 

[astronaut]

So why has astronaut seized upon Poland? What about Lithuania? Things weren't exactly brilliant there either. Many Lithuanian Jews headed for this country and...Ireland.

Well I could have given a long list of countries, or just said E.Europe. It doesn't make any difference. I was just looking for an appropriate thread title.

 

[astronaut]

astronaut hasn't provided evidence for his STATEMENTS ABOUT URBAN75 yet.

suggest he does, pronto....

What statements about Urban75?

 

[nino_savatte]

Well I could have given a long list of countries, or just said E.Europe. It doesn't make any difference. I was just looking for an appropriate thread title.

You're talking out of your arse, my friend. You had a specific reason for doing this and as I have seen on another thread, you've narrativised for the sake of propping up your shoddy thesis. Here, you have done literally the same thing.

 

[nino_savatte]

I don't think I ever said 1) that you're anti-semitic, or 2) criticized the substance of your criticism of Israel, only the nature of your criticism.

No, you don't have to say it, you have alluded to it time and time again. You have also started threads (like the Poland thread) because you simply cannot deal with criticism of Israel and the failure of Zionism.

 

[astronaut]

No, you don't have to say it, you have alluded to it time and time again. You have also started threads (like the Poland thread) because you simply cannot deal with criticism of Israel and the failure of Zionism.

Again, you're reading far too much into this.

 

[nino_savatte]

Again, you're reading far too much into this.

It's easy to suggest that because you don't want to deal with the truth or the awkward points that stem from it.

 

[tangentlama]

What statements about Urban75?

I do not mean to defend everything that has happened since. I am arguing this point for the reason that to help solve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, you have to understand what Zionism is all about -- and on Urban75 there seems to be many misperceptions (deliberate or otherwise) about Zionism and Israel. This whole argument on anti-Semitism implies that people here have little understanding of Zionist motivation -- and that is bad for the Palestinians, bad for the peace process.

22-05-2006, 04:52 PM

A lot of the discourse of anti-Zionism on Urban75 says that Zionism is racism, Zionism is anti-Semitism against Arabs, Zionism is evil, etc.

astronaut seems to be about 2 years behind with the debate here, any raise on 2 years, fellow ME'ers?

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I see that ME seems to be going on one of its little jaunts again.

If I might make a suggestion: anyone thinking of making posts challenging a vague "urban75 thinks X" mentality, or posts consisting entirely of accusations of bias and trolling and baby-eating, should simply not hit the post button.

If one disagrees with something put forward by another poster, one should challenge that argument when it is made, citing the point and why one thinks it is wrong - you know, the process of debate and all that.

 

[astronaut]

I don't think that can or should be understood as "Urban75 thinks..."

It is fairly clear that it should be understood as "people on Urban75 think..." which is accurate -- Moono, Tangentlama, Garfield, Nino, etc. are people posting on Urban75.

Tangentlama even quotes me as saying "on Urban75", NOT Urban75 itself.

FFS

 

[Lock&Light]

It is fairly clear that it should be understood as "people on Urban75 think..." which is accurate -- Moono, Tangentlama, Garfield, Nino, etc. are people posting on Urban75.

I think it is obvious that there are many people posting on Urban who do not share the one-sided blindness of Moono and his mates.

 

[tangentlama]

I don't think that can or should be understood as "Urban75 thinks..."

It is fairly clear that it should be understood as "people on Urban75 think..." which is accurate -- Moono, Tangentlama, Garfield, Nino, etc. are people posting on Urban75.

Tangentlama even quotes me as saying "on Urban75", NOT Urban75 itself.

FFS

It should be fairly clear to even the mods here, that you've been using my name/posts in your 'highlights of all that's wrong with criticism of Israel the ME forum on urban75', and so with such frequent cross-thread call-outs such as this, I suggest you make a call-out thread, with my blessing, where you can cross-question and analyse and blame to your heart's content. This should leave the rest of the forum to debate where we are, and not go over this old propaganda loop which seems to occur in nearly every damned thread astronaut writes on.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

I don't think that can or should be understood as "Urban75 thinks..."

It is fairly clear that it should be understood as "people on Urban75 think..." which is accurate -- Moono, Tangentlama, Garfield, Nino, etc. are people posting on Urban75.

Tangentlama even quotes me as saying "on Urban75", NOT Urban75 itself.

FFS

If you have an issue with someone specific's argument, argue about it with them where they put it forward. I think I was pretty clear about that in my previous post. All that results from these generalised accusations is a bunch of people saying "bollocks, I never said that" which always leads to a pointless thread.

 

[tangentlama]

I think it is obvious that there are many people posting on Urban who do not share the one-sided blindness of Moono and his mates.

It is obvious, but then, your contributions to the ME forum are even less valuable than his, consisting mostly of heckling, or criticising a poster for their viewpoint which would be a view different to your own (what did you say about one-sided?)

So why does he labour this point, cross-thread, and 'gainst FAQ? He has one of the most appalling debate styles I've seen for some time, and isn't bearing up well in the ME forum, hence the resort to ad hominems. He gets most of his information on the conflict from wikipedia, which is neither reliable, nor neutral ESPECIALLY regarding the Israel-Palestine conflict. Such a simplistic debating style which seems to skim over whatever it's not familiar with, is too inexperienced and too under-knowledgeable to get all sassy on our asses.

if he (or you) has any misconceptions that one can somehow force out the multi-faceted dialogue here and dominate it with this narrow viewpoint, whilst ruining the flow of debate in threads then he (and you) can think again, since viewpoints like his (and yours) are 10 a penny on the world wide web.

 

[moono]

L&L;

I think it is obvious that there are many people posting on Urban who do not share the one-sided blindness of Moono and his mates.

Quite a lot of vitriol packed into that nasty little line, isn't there.

One-sided in relation to what ? You're going to have to explain yourself because I've started a policy of zero tolerance to slander monkies.

Mates ? Is that applied sleaze to a term for other people with whom I happen to agree ?

 

[Lock&Light]

Quite a lot of vitriol packed into that nasty little line, isn't there.

One-sided in relation to what ? You're going to have to explain yourself because I've started a policy of zero tolerance to slander monkies.

Mates ? Is that applied sleaze to a term for other people with whom I happen to agree ?

Hardly vitriolic, IMO.

One-sided as you can only see the Israeli aggression, and never their need for defence.

Are your mates sleasy? I've no reason to think that all of them are.

 

[nino_savatte]

L&L;


Quite a lot of vitriol packed into that nasty little line, isn't there.

One-sided in relation to what ? You're going to have to explain yourself because I've started a policy of zero tolerance to slander monkies.

Mates ? Is that applied sleaze to a term for other people with whom I happen to agree ?

It's probably best to ignore the mad, self-obsessed auld fucker. He is only here to snipe and he has no serious intention of discussing anything. The sooner someone sees sense and bans him, the better.

 

[Lock&Light]

the mad, self-obsessed auld fucker.

 

[tangentlama]

<donna ferantes>...goes like this on for 999 pages...</donna ferantes>
can we just take the pages of insults as read, and skip to the debate please?