Images from China

[Brainaddict]

johey I can't help thinking you have a particular perspective as someone who lives in a big, rich city. A lot of the people who live in rural areas are neither happy nor modern. I saw people ploughing the fields with oxen and planting rice by hand, ankle deep in water, working in a bent-over position for hours at a time. It's not a nice life for a lot of those people. I suspect the same could also be said for a lot of people who live in the less cosmopolitan, more industrial cities - some of the cities I travelled through were fucking grim tbh.

From wikipedia:
At the end of 2006 China's total population was 1.3 billion, with 737 million (56%) and 577 million (44%) residing in the rural and urban areas respectively.

So there are still more people living in rural areas than in cities like Shanghai - though with the government busy fiddling the figures and ignoring illegal migrants who knows how accurate that is?

 

[Diamond]

johey I can't help thinking you have a particular perspective as someone who lives in a big, rich city. A lot of the people who live in rural areas are neither happy nor modern. I saw people ploughing the fields with oxen and planting rice by hand, ankle deep in water, working in a bent-over position for hours at a time. It's not a nice life for a lot of those people. I suspect the same could also be said for a lot of people who live in the less cosmopolitan, more industrial cities - some of the cities I travelled through were fucking grim tbh.

From wikipedia:
At the end of 2006 China's total population was 1.3 billion, with 737 million (56%) and 577 million (44%) residing in the rural and urban areas respectively.

So there are still more people living in rural areas than in cities like Shanghai - though with the government busy fiddling the figures and ignoring illegal migrants who knows how accurate that is?

China's population and specifically its rural population is something of a moot point. Most of the 'experts' that I spoke to in China (academics, journalists, long-term residents and travel writers) were of the opinion that the population of China has been massively underestimated.

The one child policy is more of a foreign policy gimmick than a viable domestic policy and there is very little evidence of it outside of the major urban centres (Beijing, Shanghai, Shenzhen, Guangzhou etc..). In rural areas in particular families will have their one 'official' child who they can register with the authorities to go to school and hopefully university, but the other siblings will remain off any registers to avoid punitive taxation levels. The 'non-kids' stay with the family to work their land, something of crucial importance in a country where the majority of farming is still not properly mechanised. There are supposed to be hundreds of millions of these peasant kids that don't officially exist.

The point I'm trying to make is that China is a mind-bogglingly large country with an almost absurd official population of 1.3 billion. Add on to that the likely 500 million (give or take 100 million) of non-registered kids and immigrants and you have a gargantuan population approaching 2 billion. So when people talk about the dynamic, thrusting young China that's awash with money and charged with self-confidence, even if they're referring to 100 or 200 million yuppies, that' still only a tiny, tiny fraction of the population.

From what I could see Chinese society is very skewiff but a the moment the level of growth and the abundant evidence that people can improve their lot in their lifetime is just about holding it together.

 

[johey24]

That's the Cathederal just by Renmin square/park, isn't it?

I recognise that from earlier this year. IME Shanghai is a pretty amazing place, but I wouldn't really think of it or its citizens as tremendously representative of China. But then again China is so bloody huge and so diverse that's it's always going to be difficult to find anything that's representative.

I tell you where would be a good place to get some pictures, that's the shopping malls for fake goods a few blocks north of the bund over the suzhou creek.

True. Shanghai is not China. A pretty popular saying in this city.

But we have been around this country in the last two years or so, and what we experience daily in Sh is what we have experienced everywhere else in this vast country: a PEOPLE full of acceptance, openness, inclusivity of us as foreigners, a willingness to talk, a ready smile .... they are just a friendly people.

Quite simple.

The Cathedral? Not quite where you have it. There are four rather big churches / cathedrals in that area that I know of, probably more - and many more throughout this massive city. The one I sat in was on Metro Line 3, about 6 stops to the west of People's Square near the Met TV Station. But they are pretty much the same, I guess. Not really being a religious person, this one caught my eye because it was Xmas and, as a friend said, whenever you enter a church, where ever you are in the world, a sense of culture and childhood floods over you and you get lost in memories.

Guess that is what happened there.

Re the area n the other side of the Suzhou Creek, aka Cheepo Lu (Cheap Street) .. been there, done that. Amazing area.

 

[johey24]

johey I can't help thinking you have a particular perspective as someone who lives in a big, rich city. A lot of the people who live in rural areas are neither happy nor modern. I saw people ploughing the fields with oxen and planting rice by hand, ankle deep in water, working in a bent-over position for hours at a time. It's not a nice life for a lot of those people. I suspect the same could also be said for a lot of people who live in the less cosmopolitan, more industrial cities - some of the cities I travelled through were fucking grim tbh.

From wikipedia:
At the end of 2006 China's total population was 1.3 billion, with 737 million (56%) and 577 million (44%) residing in the rural and urban areas respectively.

So there are still more people living in rural areas than in cities like Shanghai - though with the government busy fiddling the figures and ignoring illegal migrants who knows how accurate that is?

BA, I do appreciate and respect your posts as you make some valid and more importantly, some interesting points. However, right now it is approaching 23h00 here and I am off to bed. Will reply to you asap, prob somewhere around next weekend.

And guys, all I am trying to do is to a show a People. Nothing more.

 

[Orang Utan]

Well, in the morning, perhaps you could take some time to respond to my points about human rights abuses in China, instead of studiously ignoring them.

 

[Brainaddict]

BA, I do appreciate and respect your posts as you make some valid and more importantly, some interesting points. However, right now it is approaching 23h00 here and I am off to bed. Will reply to you asap, prob somewhere around next weekend.

And guys, all I am trying to do is to a show a People. Nothing more.

But what you showed was some people, who live in China. It's your assertion that you're showing a people that I think is incorrect

 

[jæd]

Well, in the morning, perhaps you could take some time to respond to my points about human rights abuses in China, instead of studiously ignoring them.

Why not start a thread in the relevent forum, rather than derailing a thread specifically about the sights of China in the arts forum...?

 

[Orang Utan]

Why not start a thread in the relevent forum, rather than derailing a thread specifically about the sights of China in the arts forum...?

I was responding to the rather outrageous claims on this thread, so here is the best place for it, surely?

 

[jæd]

I was responding to the rather outrageous claims on this thread, so here is the best place for it, surely?

The first item you disagreed with is:

This is a HAPPY, highly organised, modern, moderate society with firm roots in family and compromise; changing and "globalising" at such a rate that predicting exactly what is to result from this, is nigh impossible.

I suppose you're going to tell me that the Chinese constantly go around sour faced and constantly have their thoughts weighed down upon the many injustices they face...? I'm also thinking the OP has perhaps more experience of dealing with the Chinese people in China than you do...

 

[jæd]

And guys, all I am trying to do is to a show a People. Nothing more.

Its very interesting and I hope that you continue to post these great photos up. (And ignore the people on this thread who are trying to disrupt it)

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm anjoying the photos too, I'm just questioning the rose-tinted comments accompanying them. Also, when someone tells you you can't comment on something, it's like a red rag to a bull

 

[Orang Utan]

I suppose you're going to tell me that the Chinese constantly go around sour faced and constantly have their thoughts weighed down upon the many injustices they face...?

Of course not

 

[zenie]

Lovely pics and completley changed the stereotypical view I have in my head of China!

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm also thinking the OP has perhaps more experience of dealing with the Chinese people in China than you do...

So you trust their assertion that the Chinese are all happy?

 

[johey24]

I was responding to the rather outrageous claims on this thread, so here is the best place for it, surely?

Thanks for the attempt at keeping horse-blinkered ones off here, jaed.

OK Mr(s) DemiGod Chinaphobe. Let's take this to the political forum. If you have the bronze nuggets to start a thread there attacking me and my photos showing normal people in China, I will respond there.

If you have the balls to do it, also have the balls to get out from behind your anonymity and tell us where you are from, what country you live in etc. Just so I know what blameless, sweet, innocent, utopian country's stats I have to study up on .....

If not there, so be it.

 

[Orang Utan]

My name is Rob Taylor and I'm from London. I don't see why I should start a new thread - if you make a silly claim, prepare to be challenged on it on the thread that you made it

 

[jæd]

So you trust their assertion that the Chinese are all happy?

I think you're trying to read too much from a one line comment... Are all the Chinese all happy with their lot all the time...? Probably not. But it doesn't mean that individuals can't be happy.

And, since the OP has direct experience of the Chinese in their homeland, and is expressing surprise that he found them happier than he expected, I'd put more on his experiences than others...

(Obviously there could be some handlers around the corner with laughing gas...)

 

[johey24]

Lovely pics and completley changed the stereotypical view I have in my head of China!

Thank you Zenie. That is ALL I wanted to do with these pics, change a perception or maybe even two. Having literally fought these people on my country's borders in the bad old Cold War days, I had a very different, I guess stereotypical, devilish view of them before arriving here.

Today I see that they are just a sweet, really kind and generous people with a heavy dash of naivety.

 

[Brainaddict]

They are just a sweet, really kind and generous people with a heavy dash of naivety.

It seems you've gone from a generalised bad view of chinese people to a generalised good view. All too much generalising for my liking.

 

[dada]

i also find the comments from OP are inclining to the rosy side with his/her assumptions/perceptions. same applies to the photos and their comments on johey24's flickr.

this means no offense, but even though a foreigner can live couple years in china and experience life in china with the locals, that doesn't mean s/he is able to grasp the chinese psyche. a smiling face in the street doesn't represent they live a happy life all the time.

thanks for sharing the photos though.
and to comment on the photos regarding to their artistic values?
i find them too croppy and photoshopped.

 

[Orang Utan]

It seems you've gone from a generalised bad view of chinese people to a generalised good view. All too much generalising for my liking.

Quite - that's all that I was objecting to

 

[Yossarian]

I too, having literally fought these people on my country's borders in the bad old Cold War days, have had a very different, I guess stereotypical, devilish view of them before arriving here.

You literally took part in fighting against the Chinese on your country's border during the Cold War? Are you Vietnamese?

 

[Stanley Edwards]

It seems you've gone from a generalised bad view of chinese people to a generalised good view. All too much generalising for my liking.

Give him time. He may see the other side and publish photos here from an internet connection that isn't being monitored

 

[dada]

Give him time. He may see the other side and publish photos here from an internet connection that isn't being monitored

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[johey24]

LOL!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, I may, you cynics. No, I am not Vietnamese.

 

[Jessiedog]

Oi oi peeps.

Blessings all.




Woof

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh, I may, you cynics. No, I am not Vietnamese.

Who are you then?

 

[editor]

Any chance of taking the political discussion about China to a different forum and letting people comment on the photos?

It is the photo forum after all!

 

[Orang Utan]

I always click on new posts, so I never know what forum I'm posting in. I still think there's nothing wrong with a bit of overspill - it's natural FFS!

 

[dada]

Any chance of taking the political discussion about China to a different forum and letting people comment on the photos?

It is the photo forum after all!

i did comment on the photos.
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