I'm in shock, fiftyone bloody quid.
- Thread starter Sasaferrato
- Start date
I agree with the OP, the price of petrol is a fucking disgrace 
It should be doubled in all petrol stations in and around major conurbations like London to get lazy motorists off their fat arses and walking, using the perfectly adequate public transport services and cycling to get about.
It should be doubled in all petrol stations in and around major conurbations like London to get lazy motorists off their fat arses and walking, using the perfectly adequate public transport services and cycling to get about.
Excluding SNCF as our Gallic neighbours are a law unto themselves on this one as well as (say) electricity sale and distribution: It is not true to say that in Europe there is a blanket bankrolling of the railways per se.
First and foremost, every European country has the ownership of track and signalling split into a separate legal entity or at least clearly separated within the railway company’s structure. Governments (and the EU) will continue to invest in the infrastructure, building high speed lines in France and Germany for example and establishing Trans-European corridors through several countries: Berlin-Prague-Bratislava-Budapest being the first that springs to mind.
The movement of freight is already a competitive business that is showing structures comparable to other economic activity and is already beginning to form European / Worldwide structures. Eg: Deutsche Bahn has re-branded it’s freight arm “Railion” and has already bought the freight business from Dutch Nederlandse Spoorwegen and the logistics group Stinnes thus offering a combined road / rail freight solution.
But we’re mainly talking about passenger services and specifically local passenger services I guess. It is a fact that in Germany all local services are contracted by the states and put out to tender. Notwithstanding arguments abut the powers of incumbents it is the fact that a bunch of services around Munich have been won by Connex. In fact services have improved since contacting of local public services because the service level can be agreed and set in advance.
In Poland, the major operator PKP has already divested local passenger services to regional companies. In the Czech Republic a number of branch lines have been handed over to more competitive small operators. In Slovakia the operator acting in purely commercial interest savagely cut a lot of services on rural lines prompting local authorities to step in and contract SOME of the services back.
Without teaching you to suck eggs, you need to understand the difference between running an operation with a blank public cheque which is what I think you “accuse” mainland Europe of and specificly contracted services and the tender process.
Although varying slightly from country to country the trend is clear. Commercialisation of rail transport is here, its increasing. But it is being done in a planned way with recognition that transport is a social good for which specific subsidies are an investment and not just a cost.
First and foremost, every European country has the ownership of track and signalling split into a separate legal entity or at least clearly separated within the railway company’s structure. Governments (and the EU) will continue to invest in the infrastructure, building high speed lines in France and Germany for example and establishing Trans-European corridors through several countries: Berlin-Prague-Bratislava-Budapest being the first that springs to mind.
The movement of freight is already a competitive business that is showing structures comparable to other economic activity and is already beginning to form European / Worldwide structures. Eg: Deutsche Bahn has re-branded it’s freight arm “Railion” and has already bought the freight business from Dutch Nederlandse Spoorwegen and the logistics group Stinnes thus offering a combined road / rail freight solution.
But we’re mainly talking about passenger services and specifically local passenger services I guess. It is a fact that in Germany all local services are contracted by the states and put out to tender. Notwithstanding arguments abut the powers of incumbents it is the fact that a bunch of services around Munich have been won by Connex. In fact services have improved since contacting of local public services because the service level can be agreed and set in advance.
In Poland, the major operator PKP has already divested local passenger services to regional companies. In the Czech Republic a number of branch lines have been handed over to more competitive small operators. In Slovakia the operator acting in purely commercial interest savagely cut a lot of services on rural lines prompting local authorities to step in and contract SOME of the services back.
Without teaching you to suck eggs, you need to understand the difference between running an operation with a blank public cheque which is what I think you “accuse” mainland Europe of and specificly contracted services and the tender process.
Although varying slightly from country to country the trend is clear. Commercialisation of rail transport is here, its increasing. But it is being done in a planned way with recognition that transport is a social good for which specific subsidies are an investment and not just a cost.
grtho said:
Interesting stuff, grtho.
Poland, however, appears from what I've been reading to be undergoing its own miniature version of the Beeching Axe, although hopefully better thought-out, which is dong away with a lot of small lines. That sort of thing can seem like good economic sense at the time (especially if you're Beeching and you use cooked figures), but it can destroy the coherence of the network, and it can lead to lines that were profitable becoming less so as they lose their feeder lines. Moreover, a lot of the Beeching closures now look very short-sighted - lines that would certainly be busy now have been lost for good.
Whether the same sort of thing is happening elsewhre in Europe I don't know. I'd not be surprised if it was or is, as the East European states move towards a more marketised system and the 'social need' aspect of transport planning takes second place to profitability.
ooh flippin heck Ed I dunno! I don't have detailed figures for traffic in every city in the land.editor said:
We were talking about *severe* day-long traffic problems outside the normal morning and night rush hours, yeah?
From personal experience, I'd not choose to drive in Leeds, Madchester or Bristol again. I understand Edinbourgh is bad, but I've never been there.
What I'm saying is that London is not typical of the rest of the UK. Even in 2nd city Birmingham a car is far the best option outside the rush hour
So I dunno half a dozen maybe??
C'mon on then tear away .........get it off your chest.
(which is seems you've all been doing, judging by how much this thread has grown since I left it last night
)
Sasaferrato
Super Refuser!
comstock said:ooh flippin heck Ed I dunno! I don't have detailed figures for traffic in every city in the land.
We were talking about *severe* day-long traffic problems outside the normal morning and night rush hours, yeah?
From personal experience, I'd not choose to drive in Leeds, Madchester or Bristol again. I understand Edinbourgh is bad, but I've never been there.
What I'm saying is that London is not typical of the rest of the UK. Even in 2nd city Birmingham a car is far the best option outside the rush hour
So I dunno half a dozen maybe??
C'mon on then tear away .........get it off your chest.
(which is seems you've all been doing, judging by how much this thread has grown since I left it last night
Edinburgh isn't too bad except at morning and evening rush.
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