If this is the future of electric cars......
- Thread starter Farmer Giles
- Start date
djbombscare
Plays with knives
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
It's a 36kwh battery, Li-ion batteries can be very nearly perfect charging efficiency so we'll pretend this sort is just as good. That's a lot of juice, you're talking about the average household's daily consumption there. On the plus side it'll be charging at night mostly, which means it'll be able to take advantage of power that'd be wasted otherwise.
On the other hand you're cutting out the petrol used entirely. While energy can be generated cleanly, petrol can't really.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
You're saying it's a lot of electricity for 200 miles*?
* How is this 200 miles arrived at, is it the non-variable 80kph/56 mph, flat surface, with the wind behind you measurment car companies use to max their fuel efficiency?
* How is this 200 miles arrived at, is it the non-variable 80kph/56 mph, flat surface, with the wind behind you measurment car companies use to max their fuel efficiency?
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
My daddy has a Lexus petrol/leccy motor and the battery died. £6000 to replace the fucker. Luckily it's under warrenty. Car to be sold as warrenty expires.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
You can actually buy a much greener,lower emissions new car for 6 grand!
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Don't know, the Gwizz thinks it gets 40 miles out of 9.6kwh. The Tesla claims to get around 220 from a 56kwh battery.
Don't know.
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Give the old cunt a break, he got teh Lexus when he ditched his V8 Range Rover
Fair enough
ABS, ESP, semi auto gearboxes, electronic management systems where all on mainstream trucks (Scania, Volvo, etc.) before they were on mainstream cars !
Lemon Eddy
Disliked by dwyer
I believe (but am open to correction) that they were in use in car racing before the truck industry used them (Semi auto gearboxes - Le Mans 1912, ABS - Feguson P99 race car of the 60's, etc)
I'm happy to accept that they were in production trucks before they were in production cars. My point was purely that quite often sports car development has pioneered features that then became standard in normal cars, so the development of a high performance electronic car could well be a very good thing.
You're quite right, AFAIK. The saying that 'racing improves the breed' is very true.
That said, there are some things used on road cars that are unsuitable for motorsports applications, and probably vice versa. I can't think of an example of the latter off the top of my head, but ABS found no favour in rallying, where it can be an advantage to lock one or more wheels on occasion, and nor did four-wheel-steering.
citydreams
on the road again
And how much electricity will it use on a wet and cold January mormimg when you need lights, wipers, heating and because of the cold the batteries don't work so efficiently.
Also in inner cities how will they secure the charging supply when it's next to the pavement - imagine the gang of drunks on their way home on a Friday night pulling all the plugs out where there's on street parking charging points.
Don't wanna be too much of a pessimist but there's still a long way to go before there's a viable electric car.
8ball
As seen on TikTok
151.37 Megawatts
What about the carnage caused by armies of drunks setting on-street petrol pumps alight?!
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Here's some more detail on those battery pack's performance in an electric SUV: http://www.phoenixmotorcars.com/vehicles/suv-specifications.php Only says 100+ miles per charge but it is hauling a 2.5 ton vehicle about.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
If the 'charge in 10 minutes' claim is true, that won't be a problem, as you would charge up at a conventional garage, or at the supermarket or whatever.
That it why (IMHO) this is a potential breakthrough.....
G-WIZ is not the answer. It would be a death trap in a major collision (you may not be going that fast, but the other guy could be) as they are so flimsy, and I cannot understand how it can be permitted not to meet the Euro crash-survivability tests (which it is). Your fondness for saving the planet could cost you your life. I think it is wrong for the government to relax safety standards just because the vehicle is electric. Better and more public transport is a more intelligent solution.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Think the Gwiz is technically a road worthy quad bike, not a car, which is why they can dodge the safety aspects. Better public transport helps but it's not feasible to roll it out to everyone in quantity.
Better public transport helps but it's not feasible to roll it out to everyone in quantity.[/QUOTE]
It would be if there were restrictions on cars. TfL bought 200 extra buses to deal with increased demand after the Congestion charge zone came in. You could not make pub trans universally available without restricting vehicles for individuals. Hard choice and it won't happen any time very soon, but it will be inevitable if climate change and pollution targets are to be met.
Basically, electric cars are not all that green because the same amount of energy is being used at the end of the day. Unless you believe in electric cars powered by nuclear power stations, the overall atmospheric cost won't be much less than it is now. Electric cars only displace pollution to the power station from the vehicle. In terms of overall energy saving, boring old diesel-powered buses combined with restrictions on cars do the job much better.
It would be if there were restrictions on cars. TfL bought 200 extra buses to deal with increased demand after the Congestion charge zone came in. You could not make pub trans universally available without restricting vehicles for individuals. Hard choice and it won't happen any time very soon, but it will be inevitable if climate change and pollution targets are to be met.
Basically, electric cars are not all that green because the same amount of energy is being used at the end of the day. Unless you believe in electric cars powered by nuclear power stations, the overall atmospheric cost won't be much less than it is now. Electric cars only displace pollution to the power station from the vehicle. In terms of overall energy saving, boring old diesel-powered buses combined with restrictions on cars do the job much better.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Some truth in this, for sure, although we could use carbon captured coal to generate electricity of course. And I do believe there is a role for nuclear power stations to power cars.
I don't think this is an either/or. Public transport for cities, electric cars elsewhere. That may actually mean restrictions on electric cars in cities (current policy in London at least is to encourage them). But we've got to get the range up, the top speed to something reasonable and some load carrying capacity. Three areas where the Gwizz falls down badly......
And we've got to solve the on street charging problem, either with charging so quick you can do it at a garage or supermarket or with batteries so light you can take them out of the car and plug them in.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Think back to the begining of the IC engine - compared to the G-Wiz, this is like a Buggatti or something! It might be a niche, boy racer car, but it's the sort of thing that needs to be seen to work to get people happy that an electric car - indeed, electric anything - is not just a toy concept.
The same amount of energy as what? A tank of petrol? I'd guess that the energy input required to deliver 1 k/w of leccy to my plug and thence my car battery is considerably less then the energy required to get the equivalent amount of petrol into my fuel tank. Couple that with something that is clearly far more efficient to run than a petrol engine and it's clearly greener, even with increased leccy demand - something which can be made greener, unlike extracting, transporting, refining and distributing petrol.
I dunno - does anyone have numbers for this stuff? If we're looking at extraction to burning for a petrol engine, and generation to plug for one of these - what's going to be more efficient and cleaner?
That's not to say I don't think public transport isn't the better way forward, but I'm not some rabid anti-car person who thinks they're the devils device...
I dunno - how many k/w can a 50 ltr tank of petrol produce
The same amount of energy as what? A tank of petrol? I'd guess that the energy input required to deliver 1 k/w of leccy to my plug and thence my car battery is considerably less then the energy required to get the equivalent amount of petrol into my fuel tank. Couple that with something that is clearly far more efficient to run than a petrol engine and it's clearly greener, even with increased leccy demand - something which can be made greener, unlike extracting, transporting, refining and distributing petrol.
I dunno - does anyone have numbers for this stuff? If we're looking at extraction to burning for a petrol engine, and generation to plug for one of these - what's going to be more efficient and cleaner?
That's not to say I don't think public transport isn't the better way forward, but I'm not some rabid anti-car person who thinks they're the devils device...
I dunno - how many k/w can a 50 ltr tank of petrol produce
david dissadent
New Member
http://www.meridian-int-res.com/Projects/Lithium_Microscope.pdf
See page 45 (sorry cant C&P). At the very best and with a limited concern for the enviroment we might, just might be able to produce enough lithium batteries for 5million cars a year. And as with all comodities where demand exceeds supply expect the cost of lithium to shoot up.
Hybrids and electric cars will remain relatively rare until someone whipps out vast new sources of lithium or some other battery technology.
Its either managed power down or run out of energy.
See page 45 (sorry cant C&P). At the very best and with a limited concern for the enviroment we might, just might be able to produce enough lithium batteries for 5million cars a year. And as with all comodities where demand exceeds supply expect the cost of lithium to shoot up.
Hybrids and electric cars will remain relatively rare until someone whipps out vast new sources of lithium or some other battery technology.
Its either managed power down or run out of energy.
Oswaldtwistle
Banned
Well the other alternative is compressed air- I don't think we will run out of that! Still need to power the compressors of course.....
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
Ho hum that's that one down the shitter then...
Electric cars help cities by not polluting the air, and technically, it should be possible to control pollution better centrally, i.e. at source at the power stations, but it is still very difficult and very expensive. It is true that electric motors are much more efficient than petrol ones, but then as DD remarked you get the energy storage problem. Whichever way you cut it, though, you still need to generate more or less the same amount of energy to power the vehicle with you in it, whether it's petrol or electric driven. I bet the energy efficiency differential between petrol and electric is nothing like as great as the difference between having 64 people in say 40 cars, and having 64 people in one Clapham omnibus.
I am not anti-car either, but trying to look at this from the long view. If we have to bring down energy use (which is a good idea anyway because of the amount we waste) because 80 per cent of our electricity is generated by greenhouse gas producing technology (oil, coal and gas) then the best way involves no new tech -- just raise the number of people carried by all vehicles, e.g. trains, trams and buses, because the more folk in the vehicle, the greater the energy efficiency. Emissions-wise and energy-wise a full bus with a bloody great diesel engine is still ultimately more environmentally friendly than an electric car. Sure, the car will probably always be with us, but in big, crowded cities? Hope not.
I am not anti-car either, but trying to look at this from the long view. If we have to bring down energy use (which is a good idea anyway because of the amount we waste) because 80 per cent of our electricity is generated by greenhouse gas producing technology (oil, coal and gas) then the best way involves no new tech -- just raise the number of people carried by all vehicles, e.g. trains, trams and buses, because the more folk in the vehicle, the greater the energy efficiency. Emissions-wise and energy-wise a full bus with a bloody great diesel engine is still ultimately more environmentally friendly than an electric car. Sure, the car will probably always be with us, but in big, crowded cities? Hope not.
starfish2000
Well-Known Member
Well if you want to save the planet you need to get them onboard. This is precisely whats been needed for ages
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
oh i dunno if they make fast cars which appeal to those with big pockets then the technology will become cheaper all round.
that being said there's a lot of trouble with regenerative braking as is being discovered by f1 teams over heating random electical earthing issues (the last one was via an mechanic !!) and therefore not really practical for the general consumption.
Also what no one seems to be talking about is how enviromentally freindly the production of the batteries is or their subisquent disposal/replacement would be.
The other thing about making these kind of cars (which looks a lot like a TVR tuscan reworked) is that it's not terribly enviromentaly friendly in terms of the carbon fiber construction and the resein they need to bond it which is highly carsonagenic and again difficult to dispose of.
hydrogen is the way forward now if more than honda were investing in it then we'd see some real world cars rather than this good idea on paper (not even a prototype produced yet of these) cars being developed.
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