silverfish
Sprinkling glitter on turds
Only if there were no poor kids doing the same thing
If money was no issue would you send your kids to a fees school?
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weepiper
I fix the machines that fight climate change
Seriously... I have a large private school about 5 minutes' walk from my house and another 5 minutes from my workplace. I get a lot of them coming in my shop with their parents on the way home to get bikes fixed... universally they (parents and children) have no manners or idea of how to behave around people, the kids will pick up and faff with potentially dangerous things like the bench vice or expensive bike components out on display and don't get told off for it, and the parents will expect me to drop everything and spend 20 minutes fixing things on the spot and then get pissy about being charged for it. If that's your 'confidence' instilled by a private education you can keep it. I want my kids to grow up likeable people, with some clue of how to behave in society.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
It's a good principle but I don't think it includes all others, or that you can follow it absolutely. For instance, doesn't going to university essentially do a similar thing? To withdraw completely from " the transmission and production of privilege and inequality" would be to suggest you could withdraw your complicity completely from capitalism/the system, and it is the nature of the beast that it is almost impossible to do this.
Therefore, other principles also come into play I think.
I don't know why I'm arguing this as though you might come to agree with me
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
Is that a no?It's a good principle but I don't think it includes all others, or that you can follow it absolutely. For instance, doesn't going to university essentially do a similar thing? To withdraw completely from " the transmission and production of privilege and inequality" would be to suggest you could withdraw your complicity completely from capitalism/the system, and it is the nature of the beast that it is almost impossible to do this.
Therefore, other principles also come into play I think.
I don't know why I'm arguing this as though you might come to agree with me
It suggests that buying the opp is restricted to the few, and despite the many problems with state and university education they are run on a very different basis. To opt into the other basis- to opt into the buying of privilege as the normal operation of society - is to betray that overarching principle. University isn't.
Or you might come back in another five years after a bit of experience and end up agreeing with me...again
geminisnake
a complex mass of conflicting ideas
Disagree with that. If I had had the money to send my son to school where he was happy I wouldn't have cared about the politics of it or what some twat writing for a newspaper thought. And it would have been a nutty Steiner school coz that seemed to be an environment where he would have fitted better.
Your child's happiness doesn't define your politics. You want your child/ren to be happy but you can still believe in/ and work towards equality for all.
This is one hell of a bump is it not??
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Would sending your kid to Summerhill be buying privilege? It's not exactly a breeding ground for future rulers of the nation or top investment bankers AFAIK.Is that a no?
It suggests that buying the opp is restricted to the few, and despite the many problems with state and university education they are run on a very different basis. To opt into the other basis- to opt into the buying of privilege as the normal operation of society - is to betray that overarching principle. University isn't.
Or you might come back in another five years after a bit of experience and end up agreeing with me...again
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
It doesn't have to be.
You only send your kids there once your privilege has been bought. Summerhill has always been an expression of privilege.
(any movement on the no/yes question?)
frogwoman
Let them eat newts
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
About 10 grand average - boarding schools more, 20 grand plus. For one kid.
'alternative private school?'
'alternative private school?'
purenarcotic
Conveniently Pocket Sized
http://www.twickenhamprep.co.uk/fees.html - gives a decent idea of how most private primaries operate.
boohoo
No.
My education was shite. My parents were fairly disinterested so no real push or encourage to do uni. Course they wanted me to do well, just as long as I paid for myself and wasn't a bother too them. Lack of encouragement, poor schooling, no peer or older role models and no encouragement from school equals an uphill struggle to know what I could do and how to achieve it.
So yes, I hear lots of stuff from people who went to posh schools about how bad it was but I feel their basic educations are ten steps ahead of mine. I don't agree with private education but I'd rather my kid came out with some good results and excitement about their education than feeling discouraged and aimless.
And of course, the child's happiness is important too!
So yes, I hear lots of stuff from people who went to posh schools about how bad it was but I feel their basic educations are ten steps ahead of mine. I don't agree with private education but I'd rather my kid came out with some good results and excitement about their education than feeling discouraged and aimless.
And of course, the child's happiness is important too!
Thora
Differently Ethical
I mean like a hippy type one rather than an academically focussed one. I assume they would be cheaper if they're not getting all their pupils into Oxbridge afterwards.About 10 grand average - boarding schools more, 20 grand plus. For one kid.
'alternative private school?'
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
They might be - i don't see why it necessarily follows though. Summerhill is about the average i think - day fees from 4-10 grand. Boarders, 15 grand. For one kid.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yeah, and people end up talking themselves into it. I have a friend who I can see changing like that, using this exact rationalisation for the expense - that it will just be a continuation of what they're already paying. Between them he and his partner earn about 100k though (she earns most of it, and she appears to be talking him into going private).
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Indeed and if you split that cost between a couple it's not totally unreastic.
Thora
Differently Ethical
Especially as childcare for a child in state primary could easily be £5-£6k a year.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The cost of childcare is totally nuts. Has it gone up loads recently, or was it always nuts?
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
nope, never. if money were no object and the local schools were really dire i'd up sticks and move to somewhere where they weren't.
Thora
Differently Ethical
I don't think it has changed much in the last 5-6 years, don't know before that. It is certainly under-subsidised.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, this would be my answer too, I think. It's still doing something that is a bit antisocial, though - you'd still be getting your kid a better education using the fact that you have more money than others.
Thora
Differently Ethical
And driving up housing costs near good schools to ensure that the poor have even less access to good state education.
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
isn't that what money's for?
bi0boy
Power User
What, getting more things than other people? Yes, that's exactly what it's for, it says so just under the queen's head.
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
well, yes, fortunately (
) i'm never likely to be in any position to put these imaginary principles to the test. we did briefly consider moving house for secondary school purposes, but a) we'd never sell our house b) it would come at a crucial point in my uni course c) our local comp isn't that bad and d) kid1 has a really good group of mates, why split her up from them for some supposed advantage of a "better" school?
wayward bob
i ate all your bees
no for giving your kids the best chance they can have. can't think of a better use for it myself.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes. However you use your wealth to get your kid into a better school it has to be at the expense of someone else. It can't not be. But if my hypothetical kid were really unhappy at school, I think I would use my hypothetical wealth to try to get them a better school.
But I think it's a mistake to blame individual parents for this kind of thing. It's the system that's failing where this happens, and individual parents can only choose from the options in front of them. I would never blame a parent for doing what they think is right by their child. They are likely to see it as their duty to do so.
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