If Eavis won't admit the truth, will Glastonbury next year be better?
- Thread starter Dravinian
- Start date
Fez909
toilet expert
that's not saying it's an alternative festival per se, though
No, but marketing is not about saying exactly what message you want to get across, is it? It's about implying something without actually saying it.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
are you saying he's not a very very polished and refined commercail product. cos it's a delusion that he's anything other than pop music with a rappish flavour... it's a pastiche of good rap and very much designed for the 3 minute good hook pop world.
in that respect he's very much manufactured, as was his intent hence the Jay Z brand and it's band wagon. Most high profile rap is manufactured, in order for it to be commercially sucessful in a predominantly white music industry and appeal to the majority of white audenences it has to be toned down blandified and detoothed and declawed. As indeed does anything which wants to be mainstream and appeal to popularism... white or black. sadly this is often far more denigrating in terms of loss of unique identity when it's black amaerican culture than if it's white american culture, largely due to the continuing level of insitutionalise racism with in the entertainment industry even today. See eminem etc for other topical refferences...
Fez909
toilet expert
The amount of space in their advertising devoted to the alternative, rather than the commercial side of things, seems to me that that's the idea they want to give across. Surely this doesn't need to be proven?
The spiel mentioned commercial stuff once, but goes on about symbology, mysticism, religion, the Sacred Space, stone circles, chanting and drumming, etc. To deny they try to promote this idea of an alternative festival is ludicrous.
internetstalker
Get naked!
To manufacture music is to produce in a mechanical way without inspiration or originality.
You may not like Jay Z's music (I dont either) but he has talent and writes his own shit and made his fame out of hard work and his own talents.
It may be pop-hop. but his own stuff just the same.
Girls aloud are manufactured, Jay Z isn't!
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
i see no difference between the two being honest.
when Jayz writes something which is the technical peer of kool keith's blue flowers then i'll be intrested til then i'm afraid it has limited musical merit is a normal formularic poprap or pap...
anything which is designed to be formularic with limited imagination is manufactured. it's designed not as an expression of anything on an emotional level it's designed to be an ear worm and make you buy it...
The comparision you are attempting to make is that pret isn't in anyway the same as mcdonals... my point is that in fact they are both shit consumables designed for maximum profits and minimum effort...
he might have done this himself (again it's not strictly true... he was helped by the previous generations and was a long time out of the ghetto life by the time he made it...as with all these myths there's an element which is factual) however in many ways he's made more of the oppertunties than others which is invariably his own doing however you need to be at a certain level in order to be presented with those oppertunities, but he is the head of a very sucessful media generation company which has spent a long time crafting an image and pushing the concept of a certain lifestyle as a marketable brand... in order for anyone to buy into any brand they have to identify with it in order to get people to identify with it quickely it needs to be accessable to the largest number of people and that means watering down and making bland, and of course manufacturing the need....
he's manufactured, no diss if you like it or don't but don't fool yourself cos the mans from the ghetto it earns him a default crediblitiy pass in terms of being different from the girls aloud product...
Dr. Furface
One small step for me
Personally I thought it was a bold choice to put Jay-Z on as a headliner, for which they should be applauded, not derided. If anyone would be put off going just because of one artist, then they're the sort of people who shouldn't go to festies at all.
Given all the different reasons people have mentioned on this thread why they're not going - all of which seem valid except for the Jay-Z one - I think Eavis should think himself lucky that he's only got 3000 tickets out of 175000 still on his hands. Especially when you factor in that the country's in the worst economic situation for years, and petrol prices are maybe 20p or even 30p a litre higher than they were this time last year - which for some people who have to travel a long way could make a big difference.
Given all the different reasons people have mentioned on this thread why they're not going - all of which seem valid except for the Jay-Z one - I think Eavis should think himself lucky that he's only got 3000 tickets out of 175000 still on his hands. Especially when you factor in that the country's in the worst economic situation for years, and petrol prices are maybe 20p or even 30p a litre higher than they were this time last year - which for some people who have to travel a long way could make a big difference.
Idaho
continuity character
Rubbish, to be frank. It's saying go to the green fields for an alternative aspect to the festival's mainstream. It says nothing about the festival as a whole being alternative at all.
internetstalker
Get naked!
your using alot of words to say very little,
the mcdonalds pret comparison has got nothing to do with any thing.
by your reckoning anything you dont like is manufactured!
it has nothing to do with him being from the ghetto or any of that bollox!
If cheryl tweedy wasn't in girls aloud she'd be doing whatever job she was doing before.
If Jay Z wasn't a famous rapper he'd be battling in new york in some underground club.
I remember the horror in certain quarters when Orbital first played Glasto.
"But they don't have any guitars...it's not proper music...it's just samples...it's just two blokes standing on a stage...I could do that!"
Personally, I haven't been since the mudbath of '97, but that's got nothing to do with the lineup. Glasto, for me, was always a place where you could guarantee you'd end up listening to something you'd never appreciated before, and loving it. If people only go or not based on one headline act it's very sad.
"But they don't have any guitars...it's not proper music...it's just samples...it's just two blokes standing on a stage...I could do that!"
Personally, I haven't been since the mudbath of '97, but that's got nothing to do with the lineup. Glasto, for me, was always a place where you could guarantee you'd end up listening to something you'd never appreciated before, and loving it. If people only go or not based on one headline act it's very sad.
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
yeah ok... course he would...
follow that narnia fantasy land verison of hophistory... jeeze talk about buying into the brand hook line and sinker...
ever thought that a man who failed high school would in reality particularlly as he claims to have slung rocks he'd be very much brown bread by now...
Jayz is commercial manufactured hiphop, saying he's got raw talent which set's him apart is like saying cheryl tweedy is a more credible singer because she doens't bend a note or can hold a tune...
you are comparing junk food with junk food you might see it as different but it isn't. It's still manufactured shite and has limited appeal outside of the mainstream which is where it's firmely designed to sit.... it's still junk food... which everway you cut it...
however as you clearly have some manic fandom bollicks kciking in with your fawning sychofancy then i suggest we move back to the orignal topic...
hipipol
Peckham Wry
Glasto -Glyndebourne - spot the difference
Its got fuck all to do with JZ - despite the twisted rantings of the OP agains him, and the smug as fuck Garfield from Stokey shite slinging - its just Galstos got too big, like all the super-club dance fuckwittery, its past its sell by date at that kind of size - plus its all on fucking TV now anyway - pointless as a festival - bit like this whole thread....
Its got fuck all to do with JZ - despite the twisted rantings of the OP agains him, and the smug as fuck Garfield from Stokey shite slinging - its just Galstos got too big, like all the super-club dance fuckwittery, its past its sell by date at that kind of size - plus its all on fucking TV now anyway - pointless as a festival - bit like this whole thread....
internetstalker
Get naked!
How do you think he became famous in the first place?
There wasn't the pop hop simon cowell that came along and scouted him.
he did by hard work
don't let you opinions of shite music cloud the facts, like I said I'm no Jay Z fan at all, but the difference between a band that has been put together by someone else, had their songs and dance routines written for them. And someone who writes their own stuff (however shit it is) and kept doing so until they "made " it, is plain for all to see, unless of course you don't have the abilty to see the bigger picture
don't be verbose
and dont talk shit!
But yeah, lets get back to the topic
yeah ok... course he would...
follow that narnia fantasy land verison of hophistory... jeeze talk about buying into the brand hook line and sinker...
ever thought that a man who failed high school would in reality particularlly as he claims to have slung rocks he'd be very much brown bread by now...
Jayz is commercial manufactured hiphop, saying he's got raw talent which set's him apart is like saying cheryl tweedy is a more credible singer because she doens't bend a note or can hold a tune...
you are comparing junk food with junk food you might see it as different but it isn't. It's still manufactured shite and has limited appeal outside of the mainstream which is where it's firmely designed to sit.... it's still junk food... which everway you cut it...
however as you clearly have some manic fandom bollicks kciking in with your fawning sychofancy then i suggest we move back to the orignal topic...
Why have you dodged my point from a few posts ago?
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
I am amazed that so-called music fans are so anti JZ - I think it will be a great performance hip hop fans or not. Noel Gallagher made himself look like a miserable old git with his comments...
bouncer_the_dog
Well-Known Member
Everyone says 'ooh you shouldn't need to go to the pyramid stage when there is so much else on offer' but actually the Pyramid stage is one of the BEST things about Glastonbury.. I have seen some amazing stuff there over there years. Its why I was so fucked off last year when the sound was so shite. Roger Waters doing 'Animals' in its near entirety was an amazing audio experience - where they rigged up special surround sound stacks all over the field and seemed to use it only for the dogs bit 
- is just one example. So if I was going this year (and I may have cracked if I wasn't going to a wedding) I'd definatley gone to see JZ - it would have been brilliant to see some Rap on the Pyramid stage. The same way last year I saw Soweto Kinch do some actual Jazz on the Jazz stage - which was awesome too (despite the torrential rain). Anyway I think the JZ thing being a negative aspect is bizzarre - it seems like a positive move to me! People who criticise it as a choice seem to be underrating American music in general - if his interview he gave to the Beeb is anything to go by it should be an interesting performance.
- is just one example. So if I was going this year (and I may have cracked if I wasn't going to a wedding) I'd definatley gone to see JZ - it would have been brilliant to see some Rap on the Pyramid stage. The same way last year I saw Soweto Kinch do some actual Jazz on the Jazz stage - which was awesome too (despite the torrential rain). Anyway I think the JZ thing being a negative aspect is bizzarre - it seems like a positive move to me! People who criticise it as a choice seem to be underrating American music in general - if his interview he gave to the Beeb is anything to go by it should be an interesting performance.better suited to the dog & duck, more like...
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
larelgy cos i have only just seen them ...
i don't see a difference in output... tbh... if anything there's more honesty in being in a talent show and displaying your talent than courrupting your talent in order to chase the money...
dj shadow had it right in why hip hop sucks ...
so my smug point was originally it's the money which is you point too but when you say it it's less smug because your an old skool acid causualty or is it that you're trying to be faux contraverseal again... cheer up grandad
I do apologise that i have a level of music history knowledge about hiphop, i didn't realise that displaying such and making an opinioned comment about it was smug...
internetstalker said:
erm but there was dude in effect. check out Jaz-O's contribution to his rise... not the same as the girls aloud formula sure but still a svengali like figure who took him in and molded him...
sure he battled like many others at the time Busta/DMX/Jaz-O and the like but in essence he was picked up and molded and manufactured in the way that everyone else in the music business is...
it is afterall about making a marketable product which will appeal to the largest possible demographic...
As for beign verbose i'll express myself how i chose thanks all the same...
free spirit
more tea vicar?
I think it's mostly this, but I do think Jay Z is a factor - for reasons a bit more subtle than people on this thread so far seem to have mentioned.
for me everytime I hear the words Jay Z headlining at Glastonbury it just seems wrong. For me I was always into Glastonbury for it's counter culture, anti-consumerist 'hippy' ethos - it was essentially for a lot of years the place that all the counter culture people would generally meet up, usually being involved in one way or another, particularly when the travellers field was there, and to be honest I reckon naively I actually thought that unlike reading and the like, glastonbury actually stood for something.
I don't really know huge amounts about Jay Z, but for me he represents Bling culture - Bling being pretty much the antithesis of everything I'd believed Glastonbury stood for. Essentially finding out Jay Z was the headliner was pretty much the icing on the cake for me in terms of confirming all my feelings from the last few years that Glastonbury is losing it's soul and just becoming A N Other commercial pop festival that simply plays on the hippy image but has no substance underneath.
I very nearly got tempted to go just to hook up with all the urbanites going, but even with the chance of a free ticket I just couldn't bring myself to do it because I didn't want to ruin the memory of what glasto was, with the reality of what it's become (well that and I couldn't be arsed)
internetstalker
Get naked!
Jaz was a mate, hardly someone that gave him a contract and made him famous (and reaped the rewards)
And as for the marketable product, It's a business ALL music is marketable,
so based on this logic All music would be manufactured!
I don't subscribe to that point of view!
pk
drink flounce rinse repeat
Top post Free Spirit, sums my feelings up exactly.
If the Pilton lot are actively marketing it for the blinged up youth, then it ain't for me any more, sadly.
Still - plenty of cheaper and better European options!!
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=255075
If the Pilton lot are actively marketing it for the blinged up youth, then it ain't for me any more, sadly.
Still - plenty of cheaper and better European options!!
http://www.urban75.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=255075
GarfieldLeChat
fucking awesome but wrong
without going into the why's and wherefores of the Jay-Z/Nas nonsense i'd say it's pretty evident that he was more than a mate at the time and subsiquently now not a mate
well quite but some more than others... however as i said it's a junk food argument this junk food is better for you than that junk food...
agree to differ then innit.
free spirit
more tea vicar?
It may not say 'THIS IS AN ALTERNATIVE FESTIVAL' but that's definately what I'd take from this advert (for this year).
