If capitalism was smashed

[Bernie Gunther]

No really. I'm quite serious. I can see that capitalism needs smashing and all that stuff. But I'm one of those annoying detail oriented types.

What's the plan to make sure we can all eat just after capitalism is smashed?

Capitalism puts food in supermarkets. What do we do instead if it's smashed?

 

[DrRingDing]

QUOTE]


I have Daisy in my sandwich tomorrow for my lunch.

Thats I 'will' have daisy in my sandwich tomorrow for my lunch, comrade.

 

[DrRingDing]

Capitalism puts food in supermarkets. What do we do instead if it's smashed?

Go to the chippy?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Go to the chippy?

I see. Maybe we need to work some more on this whole "smashing capitalism" idea.

Not that I'm against it in principle you understand.

 

[DrRingDing]

I see.

said the blind man to his deaf brother.

 

[DrRingDing]

I see. Maybe we need to work some more on this whole "smashing capitalism" idea.

Not that I'm against it in principle you understand.

What do you feel your life will be lacking if capitalism is deconstructed?

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well, I'd just like to know what the plan is for feeding everybody.

Many revolutions have failed in this respect because they didn't think about it.

 

[kropotkin]

Isnt that one of the topics covered in The Conquest of Bread?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

If capitalism were smashed,
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
All day long I'd biddy biddy bum.
If capitalism were smashed.
I wouldn't have to work hard.
Ya ha deedle deedle, bubba bubba deedle deedle dum.
If capitalism were smashed,
Yidle-diddle-didle-didle man.

 

[kropotkin]

amazing!

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Isnt that one of the topics covered in The Conquest of Bread?

I think it's covered more sensibly in Fields, Factories and Workshops. Conquest of Bread is kind of early and airy fairy. FFW is solid stuff.

He figures out that this is a key problem in CoB. But it's in FFW he deals with it.

 

[butchersapron]

Isnt that one of the topics covered in The Conquest of Bread?

Yes, but not really in a war situation - which will be the case.

 

[kropotkin]

I think it's covered more sensibly in Fields, Factories and Workshops. Conquest of Bread is kind of early and airy fairy. FFW is solid stuff.

got that in my room- havent read it yet...

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Yes, but not really in a war situation - which will be the case.

Well, that's a factor too, but probably not the sort of war K was thinking about. Technology probably makes some difference there, as it does with all the stuff about agriculture in FFW.

 

[DrRingDing]

Well, I'd just like to know what the plan is for feeding everybody.

Pretty much the same as we do now apart from the business would be run by the workers AND all the local populace.

When people take decisions collectively they make choices that benefit a wider group of people thus these organisations will naturally become more altruistic.

With this greater compasion and empowerment people will be able to make changes to the world, which have been stopped by the few that have profitted from the cruel oppresion and exploitation of animals.

Or some other bollocks

 

[kropotkin]

Yes, but not really in a war situation - which will be the case.

well as I see it, the process of getting there [which ion many respects is the 'transitionary period' will only be successful if this problem is largely solved by the currents in society that wish it to go further. The way food [access and pricing] has been used generally to attack workers would certainly be tried again, and for an insurgent working class to develop this weapon would have to be neutralised anyway. I would assume that some sort of increased small-scale community farming (along the lines of the Cuban experiemnts Bernie often cites) and possible technological tools (GM would piss of the hippies but it would be great if that was the saving grace 60 years from now!) would have to be used...

 

[butchersapron]

Well, that's a factor too, but probably not the sort of war K was thinking about. Technology probably makes some difference there, as it does with all the stuff about agriculture in FFW.

I'm in agreement with you. Anarchists often go to great lengths to make sure that there's no pre-planned vision of the future imposed on everyone, but they also use that as an excuse not to look at practical issues. Now, frankly there's not much practical point in doing so under current conditions, but as things change i would hope that's not used as an excuse - that the point is recognised as historical not fundamental.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

Well, that sounds ok, but from the perspective of a small farmer let's say. Who will pay him for his produce, and with what? We get lots of our food via imports too, we just got ostracised by the global market. Where do we make up the shortfall? Do we copy the Cuban "Special Period" national mobilisation to grow food? Do we create forced-labour turkey farming gulags for ideological deviants?

 

[kropotkin]

Well, that sounds ok, but from the perspective of a small farmer let's say. Who will pay him for his produce, and with what? We get lots of our food via imports too, we just got ostracised by the global market. Where do we make up the shortfall? Do we copy the Cuban "Special Period" national mobilisation to grow food? Do we create forced-labour turkey farming gulags for ideological deviants?

meat-vats? Soylent Green?

 

[ZWord]

If capitalism was smashed, there'd be no food in the shops.

If capitalism was gradually replaced by an elected government dedicated to creating a sane human-centred society, and freeing people to do what they really want, it might evolve into something good.

 

[butchersapron]

Exactly why models that assume a massive and sudden changeover don't work.

 

[DrRingDing]

...and possible technological tools (GM would piss of the hippies but it would be great if that was the saving grace 60 years from now!) would have to be used...

What happens when you reduce your gene pool so much you have run out of suitable genes to pinch to create crops for your changing conditions?

 

[butchersapron]

What happens when you reduce your gene pool so much you have run out of suitable genes to pinch to create crops for your changing conditions?

Keep using the same ones?

 

[kropotkin]

What happens when you reduce your gene pool so much you have run out of suitable genes to pinch to create crops for your changing conditions?

you're not a scientist are you?

 

[DrRingDing]

Where do we make up the shortfall? Do we copy the Cuban "Special Period" national mobilisation to grow food? Do we create forced-labour turkey farming gulags for ideological deviants?

Go veggy and then you won't waste energy, time and space growing crops to feed animals which we wanna eat.

 

[DrRingDing]

Keep using the same ones?

What happens when your environment changes, as it will in time.

 

[DrRingDing]

you're not a scientist are you?

..and nor are you by the sounds of it.

 

[kropotkin]

What happens when your environment changes, as it will in time.

One trick pony ---> meat grinder

 

[butchersapron]

What happens when your environment changes, as it will in time.

What like intelligent trees and that? I welcome that scenario.

 

[DrRingDing]

Well, that sounds ok, but from the perspective of a small farmer let's say. Who will pay him for his produce, and with what?

Ever heard of those strange things called farmers markets that cut out transportation across continents, cuts out waste of middle men and profiteers?