If a DJ can't mix, does it bother you?

[Bazza]

I wish more upcoming DJs would watch someone like Jazzy Jeff and Cashmoney - they can cross genres in time, on point, and on the beat AND FOR THE CROWD!

I started off with turntablism and hip-hop for six years or so. I'd never have half the confidence, speed and skill if it wasn't for mixing hip hop.

You heard Jazzy Jeff's Hip Hop Forever on BBE (the new one)? I recommend it highly.

 

[Cloo]

If they don't try to mix, it's not a problem if the tunes are good. I admire good mixing, but I don't require it for a good time. I think there used to be a club with the motto of 'Top tunes, shite mixing', a sentiment I can support.

 

[Bazza]

The best night I've ever been to for music was a one-off at Fabric. It was a night called Music and was just Jeff Mills and Laurent Garnier playing whatever they wanted from 9pm until 4am (it ended up being until 5:30am). Hip hop/funk/soul/punk/drum and bass/breaks/acid house and blistering techno. You know what, they didn't fuck up one mix either (well, they wouldn't)

Sadly, nothing has come close since.

 

[beesonthewhatnow]

Sorry, but if you are a DJ, playing certain types* of dance music, you should learn to bloody well mix it. It's not hard FFS.

Ableton Live and Tracktor users can bugger off as well, lazy gits.





*techno / house / D&B / breaks etc

 

[Orang Utan]

bees - it IS hard! If Ableton can help me mix, I'll use it. (when I get round to it)

 

[DJWrongspeed]

It bothers me when a DJ plays crap tunes more.

i think yer right, it play some good shit if nothing else.

 

[mitochondria]

good tunes are a must
so is beatmatching or at least SOME mixing

some djs should have never started doing it

 

[Blagsta]

I mean, it would be fine at Offline. If you played it, I wouldn't hate you But not in the middle of a techno set, it's completely out of place.

I've heard a DJ chuck in I Wanna Be Your Dog in the middle of a techno set - went down a treat. I've also heard one of the HoG DJ's (I think it was Surgeon) chuck in a Hawkwind record!

 

[northernhord]

A thread about beatmatching dance tracks... this doesn't apply to reggae/soul etc really...

I saw a mix online that caught my eye – top-notch tracklisting, an eclectic mix of hip-hop/grimy stuff/electro, just up my street.

While the DJ had impeccable taste, she had no mixing skills whatsoever. Every three minutes another trainwreck would come along – the beats clashed together, the melodies were a mess. The mix lurched all over the place, which would have been fine if the DJ had done it with any panache, but this was just a dog's dinner. Instead of listening to the tunes, I found myself wincing at how these great tracks were rendered unlistenable. Maybe it would have been bearable if the tracks were faded out quickly, but the trainwrecking went on for fifteen seconds each time.

Sometimes a DJ can get away without beatmatching because they have a skill for playing the right tracks for the right time and creating a mood, but when no effort has gone into mixing, does it bother you? Do you have to be a DJ to be bothered about really bad mixing? Beatmatching keeps the flow, keeps you dancing.

Are you likely to run off the dancefloor at the first sign of a technically incompetent DJ, or will you dance in spite of the crap mixing because the DJ has just the right tunes?

It largely depends on what sort of dj you iz going to see IMO, if I was goin to see Dj Cash Money I,d expect to see his skills cos its what he is known for, if I just out at some none descript club night I wouldnt give a shite about Mixing really so long as the vibe n tunes were up there and the gaps between tunes didnt give you time enough to get served at the bar

 

[Negativland]

I've heard a DJ chuck in I Wanna Be Your Dog in the middle of a techno set - went down a treat.

Because it is Detroit.

 

[Blagsta]

Because it is Detroit.

Actually it was more of a mid 90's acid techno/trance kind of set (it was Phidget iirc).

 

[Negativland]

ach semi-joke gone wrong. I agree though I've actually heard someone play that song in a similar way

 

[sam/phallocrat]

If someone is going to play out dance music of a broadly similar genre (house, techno, breaks, dnb etc) then I expect them to at least be reasonably good at beatmatching. If they can't beatmatch, then they shouldn't try to. Succinctly, it sounds wank, and puts me off my stride on the floor, as it were.

OTOH, cross-genre DJing requires good tune slection and nothing else.

 

[Megaton]

If you are mixing music like house, techno, breakbeat or dnb you should be able to mix if you want to play live or record mixes. Tune selection is good, but most people I know who are into dnb prefer mixing every time. Its a skill that requires patience, nerves and the ear for a good tune. It does give you a "critical ear" in that you really notice even slightly bad mixing, because your ears are so tuned to the fuck-ups you make yourself. If I went to see a dj at a club who were asking for serious wonga to get in, I'd expect the mixing to be flawless.

It took me ages to learn to beatmatch, but once I'd learned it is a technique that stays with you for good. Its worth it for the reaction you get when you drop a heavy tune, after doing 3 or 4 teases. And dnb heads can be the most critical. You can then move on to the move advanced stuff - scratching, double drops etc.

I'd be really annoyed if I went to a club and the dj had a laptop - I'd probably ask for my money back. What do they do? Stand there all night looking forwards? I prefer a dj who is constantly doing something, rather than looking like a poseur.

I even think CD decks make mixing easier. Fuck that! Vinyls all the way for me.

 

[Bazza]

Megaton, I used to agree, re cds however I do think a creative DJ can do some great, great things with them.

 

[Megaton]

Megaton, I used to agree, re cds however I do think a creative DJ can do some great, great things with them.

I do think they are the future. It certainly opens you up to a lot more music that you can get for nothing. For example, if you hear a really good tune you like, you can just find it and download and then burn it. Finding it on vinyl however is another matter - 9/10 times impossible. If I got pissed off over not being able to get tunes that Andy C / Grooverider played in their sets, I'd be dead by now. But CD downloads make that easier - all you need is the trackname/artist and you are away.

 

[Orang Utan]

I'd be really annoyed if I went to a club and the dj had a laptop - I'd probably ask for my money back. What do they do? Stand there all night looking forwards?

More fool you. Some laptop DJs are infinitely more creative than your average vinyl DJ - listen to mixes by the likes of Surgeon and Nick Wilson (NCW) and you'll realise how skilful it can be, it's not just for people who can't mix!

 

[Orang Utan]

.

I even think CD decks make mixing easier. Fuck that! Vinyls all the way for me.

Isn't that a good thing?

 

[Megaton]

Isn't that a good thing?

NO! It should be hard godammit. So hard that every time you fuck up, you should punish yourself.

In fact, you should be so afraid of fucking up, even the though of fucking up should make you punish yourself.

 

[Orang Utan]

The easier it is to do the better - more people can enjoy it

 

[Mation]

Are you likely to run off the dancefloor at the first sign of a technically incompetent DJ

Not at the first sign, no. If the mixing is really bad, I have to stand still until there's a coherent rhythm again. If it happens repeatedly, I go and have a quiet cry in the corner as I'll have been tricked into going to some breakcore thingy.

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I don't know if it bothers me, as such, but I think a really good DJ should be able to mix. It can still be cool hearing good tracks unmixed, but a DJ who does that isn't going to be one of the ones I'd pay money or go out of my way to see.

 

[UTJF]

Despite what people have said about the tunes mattering more than the mixing, surely there's no point in mixing at all if it's not beatmatched? A simple fade in and out would be better, and avoid the 10 seconds or so when you're trying to dance at two different speeds.

 

[mitochondria]

trainwrecks kill the dance for me - they may happen but a good dj should mask that out quickly so it doesnt have influence on the floor. the flow is crucial to the dance party - otherwise it turns into a pub with a loud soundsystem. the best djs i have experienced never made any mistake. not one. lawler, howells, mills. and richie hawtin is god when it comes to flow. even if he uses a laptop or whatever - it is just unattainable level of mixing.

but really its the ones that cant mix two 128 tracks that make me exit immediately

 

[Fez909]

Style is important when you're a DJ. It's the only thing you're doing, really, except maybe reading the mood. Whether that style takes the form of mixing, tune selection or tricks is only important depending on what kind of night you want.

All those praising Jeff Mills' perfect mixing: are you having a laugh? If you're not, you must have only seen him in the last few years when he's taking less and less risks. I've seen him a few times from about 2000 and only once have I ever seen flawless mixing from him, and it was utter shite. And even 2000 marks a pretty low point for Mills if you listen to some of his mixes from the early 90s.

Tune selection is the most important thing for me by far. These turntablists and whathaveyou are all nice to watch on YouTube and stuff, but I've been to clubs with DJ Yoda playing on 5 decks, and DJ Craze scratching behind his back and with his elbow; and it was good to watch, but who goes out to watch the DJ all night? It was undanceable rubbish. A good tune selection with the beats mostly matched is perfectly fine for me.

I've been DJing for quite a few years now, and no matter how much I practice, I haven't been getting any better at beat-matching, like I've reached a limit in my ability to improve. I can do it, but it's nowhere near perfect, and I make the odd fuck-up every now and then. But on the whole, I can mix. And I make up for the lack of skills in the mixing department by playing the best music I can find. And I spend a lot of time finding it!

Tunes > Mixing > Tricks

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

Tunes > Mixing > Tricks

That's true to a point I think. Someone playing good tunes badly mixed will be better than someone playing crap tunes however well they can mix.

A good DJ should be able to do both though. I don't think anyone has some amazing skill at picking records that no-one else can match.

 

[bang]

I read(so it must be true ) that there are some DJs who do use a laptop/CDs to burn their tunes at a particular bpm, removing the need to beatmatch/adjust pitch with the idea that the DJ is then free to experiment with EQ, incorporate loops, focus on that side rather than having to use some time up perfecting the beatmatching/riding the pitch if necessary..
..initially my reaction would be "but that's cheating" but after going to Sonar and seeing all the technology people are using, I think that by for DJs who are using it the only limit in what can be performed is their imagination..so if the end justifies the means eg setting the tempo/using Ableton in order to concentrate on making the mix more creative then I guess it then depends on what you value more - the skill of beatmatching or the imagination a DJ employs..
>edited to add< not that I am saying beatmatching and imagination are mutually exclusive(!), just that maybe the emphasis on DJing as an art can sometimes overshadow Djing for what it is meant to be..which traditionally was to make people dance? but now..well are they performers in their own right if they are programming sets?? Maybe a DJ now means different things to different people??Not sure myself hence the rambling
..I've always found it a bit strange that London has been slow to look forward in terms of using technology when it comes to DJing..
..er wandering into the off-topic woods there slightly but what I am saying is that I think that I am not too fussed about beatmatching where imagination/technology/unusual tune selection is being used (eg Jeff Mills having to concentrate on using hardware as well as 3 decks for some sets may explain some of his trainwrecks Fez909?)

 

[Monkeygrinder's Organ]

I find the anti-technology purism a bit odd when it comes to DJing. Dance music is so inherently based on the technology picking a certain point where it becomes unacceptable seems a bit arbitrary.

 

[bang]

I find the anti-technology purism a bit odd when it comes to DJing. Dance music is so inherently based on the technology picking a certain point where it becomes unacceptable seems a bit arbitrary.

Innit..maybe it's the primitive human nature of dancing colliding with the modern methods used to invoke that same dancing which makes people scared of embracing technology too much..not wanting too much to depend on technology for a good night of music as it takes away the human element?

 

[chemn]

I find the anti-technology purism a bit odd when it comes to DJing. Dance music is so inherently based on the technology picking a certain point where it becomes unacceptable seems a bit arbitrary.

Good point that, especially in reference to the ongoing CD/ vinyl dispute!

Though those big black round shiney things are nice