IDF claims to have found Iranians fighting for Hizb'allah

[TeeJay]

How are Hezbollah "neo-fascist"?

Or are you using the term lazily in the way that people like mears uses "Islamo-fascist?

How exactly would you describe an organisation that subscribes to this this kind of political system then:

The Supreme Leader of Iran is responsible for delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran". The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has sole power to declare war. The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians are appointed by the Supreme Leader.

 

[revol68]

How exactly would you describe an organisation that subscribes to this this kind of political system then:

The Supreme Leader of Iran is responsible for delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran". The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has sole power to declare war. The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians are appointed by the Supreme Leader.

I think you'll find that Hezbullah are "democratic islamists" and recognise the absurdity of trying to force a Islamic totalitarianism on Lebanon.

You also seem to be missing the lynch pin at the very core of Hezbullah, it's role in resisting Israeli occupation and it's network of schools and hospitals.

they might have some conservative ideas but lets not become idiotic little liberals and label them fascist.

 

[TeeJay]

I think you'll find that Hezbullah are "democratic islamists" and recognise the absurdity of trying to force a Islamic totalitarianism on Lebanon.

Is that just their latest tactic?

You also seem to be missing the lynch pin at the very core of Hezbullah, it's role in resisting Israeli occupation and it's network of schools and hospitals.

Nationalism, racism, sectarianism and xenophobia? Ranting on about zionists and wanting destroy israel? Building up support and control in a region by usurping the role of the state doesn't mean an organbisation aren't extremists: every extremist/fascist regime has had schools and hospitals. This means nothing.

 

[TeeJay]

And if they are democratic they why do they imagine they have the right to unilaterally seize power in parts of Lebanon away from the elected Lebanese government? Seems they want extra power through elections, but will grab whatever they can outside elections in addition. This isn't being democratic at all.

 

[ViolentPanda]

How exactly would you describe an organisation that subscribes to this this kind of political system then:

The Supreme Leader of Iran is responsible for delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran". The Supreme Leader is Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, controls the military intelligence and security operations; and has sole power to declare war. The heads of the judiciary, state radio and television networks, the commanders of the police and military forces and six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians are appointed by the Supreme Leader.

Not as any sort of "fascist", because it's both inaccurate and facile (one could hardly, for example, accuse them of being corporatist, or of being Iranian nationalists). "Authoritarian" would be a better label

Elements of all the things you're using to attempt to attribute "fascism" to Hezbollah can be found in "western democracies" too.
For example, in the US the head of state is also C in C of the armed forces, and controls intel through the NSC, and he also appoints the heads of the judiciary. In Britain the PM has the final say in declaring war, and has right of veto over many public appintments.

Ietc etc etc.

 

[ViolentPanda]

And if they are democratic they why do they imagine they have the right to unilaterally seize power in parts of Lebanon away from the elected Lebanese government? Seems they want extra power through elections, but will grab whatever they can outside elections in addition. This isn't being democratic at all.

In the parts of Lebanon where they're fighting, Hezbollah are the elected representatives, and form part of the government.

 

[Tom A]

In the parts of Lebanon where they're fighting, Hezbollah are the elected representatives, and form part of the government.

I hope they were elected in "free and fair" elections, that's all I have to say...

 

[ViolentPanda]

I hope they were elected in "free and fair" elections, that's all I have to say...

Free and fair enough to satisfy international monitors.

 

[nino_savatte]

I hope they were elected in "free and fair" elections, that's all I have to say...

What makes you so sure that they weren't? Or is it the case that you only accept the results of certain elections as long as they conform to your idea of democracy?

 

[nino_savatte]

irg would probably be very keen to have a go at the idf
not exactly if it makes a big diffrence

All you have to go on is hearsay and the word of the IDF. Yours is a kind of "join up the dots" way of thinking. I presume you believed the Iraq/WMD story was true too.

 

[nino_savatte]

no dickhead i only said the Fajr-3 was manufactured in Iran, i made no assertion beyond that and the fact that Hizbullah got it's katyusha's from Iran and Syria i care little where the vast majority of them are manufactured, in the same way that when i say i got a bottle of wine from the offie, i am making no statement regarding the fucking Vineyard it was from.

now i appreciate the effort and cognitive disonance you have piled into your last 2 posts but it's getting tedious making you look even more like a cock puppet.

Do fuck off, you unpleasant fuck.

If you can't be civil, then there is little point in communicating with you.

 

[nino_savatte]

I admire your grace in humilation.

You really are rather full of yourself - non? Shame that there's nothing to support that bloated but empty ego of yours.

 

[Tom A]

What makes you so sure that they weren't?

Where did I say that? I was just making a query, no need to put words in my mouth...

 

[diego]

what is the problem if an Iranian muslim can fight alongside a Lebanese to DEFEND Lebanon form Terrorism, if a French jew for instance can perform terrorist attacks on innocent civilians, (Normally fleeing) the fighting on both sides?

 

[ViolentPanda]

Where did I say that? I was just making a query, no need to put words in my mouth...

You've got to admit it's a bit of a strange query to make, given that the international spotlight has been on Lebanon for so long.

It'd be a bit daft trying to pull an electoral flanker when you've got independent international monitors scrutinising every stage of the electoral process.

 

[moono]

diego;

what is the problem if an Iranian muslim can fight alongside a Lebanese to DEFEND Lebanon form Terrorism, if a French jew for instance can perform terrorist attacks on innocent civilians, (Normally fleeing) the fighting on both sides?

The problem is that that doesn't fit with the hasbara manual.

Hold up, well written article;

http://www.palestinechronicle.com/story-08110691814.htm

They tell you that a Jewish state is democratic but a Muslim state is evil; that Palestinians living in Palestine have no rights and no state but Jews living in the rest of the world can ‘return’ and live there as rights’-bearing citizens; that Jesus wants you in Palestine unless you are a Palestinian or a Muslim; that Washington, London and Tel Aviv can produce nuclear warheads but that Tehran is a global threat for daring to enrich uranium; that legitimate resistance is terrorism but state terrorism is “self-defense”; that the desert state of Syria is Nasrallah’s courier and puppeteer but that Washington is an honest broker and a partner for peace; that Iran is a rogue state for arming Hizbullah but that America is freedom-loving for arming Tel Aviv; that we cannot talk to Damascus or Tehran unless they ! renounce themselves out of existence first; that expansionism and regime change are necessary for American and Israeli national security but that the Arab and Muslim winners of free and fair democratic elections should be arrested in the middle of the night and imprisoned in secret police detention centers for attempting to rule.

Jennifer Loewenstein

 

[TeeJay]

In the parts of Lebanon where they're fighting, Hezbollah are the elected representatives, and form part of the government.

My local MP, despite being elected to represent this area, has no right to use a group of gunmen to take over the town at gun point.

Would you care to explain to me what right Hezbollah have to seize power in parts of Lebanon?

Also, if Hezbollah are part of the government, then does that mean the Lebanese government are at war with Israel?

 

[moono]

No, but it does mean that Israel is at war with the Lebanese government. Please try to identify the aggressors correctly.

 

[TeeJay]

Yes is it harder to identify people who hide in civilian areas and use human shields.

 

[ViolentPanda]

My local MP, despite being elected to represent this area, has no right to use a group of gunmen to take over the town at gun point.

I haven't claimed that your MP does have that right.

Would you care to explain to me what right Hezbollah have to seize power in parts of Lebanon?

Would you care to explain to me exactly how Hezbollah have "seized power". After all, none of us have heard anything about Hezbollah angling for South Lebanon's seccession.

Also, if Hezbollah are part of the government, then does that mean the Lebanese government are at war with Israel?

No, of course it doesn't. Hezbollah are part of the government, they don't comprise the government.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Yes is it harder to identify people who hide in civilian areas and use human shields.

Hardly tactics unique to Hezbollah.

 

[Grandma Death]

Haven't you noticed the quicksands under your feet?

Not really but I wait with bated breath while you point them out for me.

 

[ZAMB]

No, of course it doesn't. Hezbollah are part of the government, they don't comprise the government.

But the Lebanese govt. made a statement that they were supporting Hezbollah, who they referred to as 'resistance fighters' not 'militia', or 'terrorists'.
In fact, the idea that Hezbollah are terrorists has very little international support, and, AFAIR, the UN resolution that Israel claims to be carrying out does not mention Hezbollah, just unspecified militias.
Regardless of the pro-Israeli spin that is given to this story on the news, I don't think people worldwide will forget that if Israel had agreed to a prisoner exchange, all this pointless bloodshed could have been prevented.

 

[nino_savatte]

Where did I say that? I was just making a query, no need to put words in my mouth...

You suggested it in this post.

I hope they were elected in "free and fair" elections, that's all I have to say...

That doesn't look much like a "query" as it does not end with a question mark.

No one's putting words into your mouth btw.

 

[moono]

I don't think people worldwide will forget that if Israel had agreed to a prisoner exchange, all this pointless bloodshed could have been prevented.

Right.

Olmert said that Israel will negotiate with Hezbollah over the release of Israel Defense Forces soldiers Eldad Regev and Udi Goldwasser, abducted on July 12

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/749923.html


That's what happens when 'the generals' get control. They cry 'no negotiations' until it's their own bollox in the nutcrackers.

 

[TAE]

WE NEVER NEGOTIATE WITH TERRORISTS

(unless it's in our interest to do so)

 

[TeeJay]

That doesn't look much like a "query" as it does not end with a question mark.

It doesn't need one. It is raising a doubt - hence it is querying something. It is expressing this by repoorting on a state of mind (ie doubt) not by asking a direct question. Sorry, but if you are going to nit-pick grammar and linguistics then you should be a bit more sophisticated about it nino. Alternatively you might decide not to bother in the first place and avoid even more nit-picking comebacks.

 

[ViolentPanda]

It doesn't need one. It is raising a doubt - hence it is querying something. It is expressing this by repoorting on a state of mind (ie doubt) not by asking a direct question. Sorry, but if you are going to nit-pick grammar and linguistics then you should be a bit more sophisticated about it nino. Alternatively you might decide not to bother in the first place and avoid even more nit-picking comebacks.

Motes and beams, TeeJay. Motes and beams.

 

[TeeJay]

Motes and beams, TeeJay. Motes and beams.

Seems I was being a bit subtle for you, so I might as well spell it out: I am not in favour of picking up on grammar, spelling or linguistics. I did so here precisely to make this point against nit-picking - in a kind of "ironic nit-picking" if you will, or an exemplar of "don't do as you don't want to be done by".

Ya git me?

 

[moono]

Seems I was being a bit subtle for you

Do tell where. I missed it.