Identity Politics: the impasse, the debate, the thread.

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by danny la rouge, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Also, I meant 'politics' not politics. :D
  2. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    Awkward recruitment interview question that.
    MochaSoul, JimW, Tom A and 2 others like this.
  3. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    fairly everday in dykey circles in late 80s - things were fairly accrimonious amonst London's lesbians back then.
    RubyToogood and LynnDoyleCooper like this.
  4. ska invita

    ska invita back on the other side

    This Facebook post I think is a good example, not necessarily of identity politics, but of the logic failures some people seem to be going through

    Can't seem to embed the pic on my phone

    It shows up the lengths people will go to challenge personal power relations (a good thing to challenge) without letting logic, facts, or the bigger picture get in their way

    ETA, will try and repost it in a bit
  5. Idris2002

    Idris2002 put humans in tube

    A euphemism for "it's the latest thing from America", you mean.
    MochaSoul and Magnus McGinty like this.
  6. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    (Insert GIF of Judge Judy shaking her head then facepalming here)

    But seriously... good grief. Had to stop reading because of all the cringing this induced, nearly got a full house on Tumblr IDPol Bingo there, are these people for real? Anyway, moving on...

    There's definitely a Poe's Law situation in place here. If it's satire it's very good satire, I would hope that 'herbalism' would be a dead give away, but sadly I wouldn't be surprised if these people really believed all this. (E2A: Having done an online search for "radical herbalism" it turns out that this is actually a thing, but a thing that's so up its own arse it's no wonder that things turned out the way they did.)

    But, you see, "modern" Western medicine messes with your chakras, maan! (Except that would probably be considered a safer space violation due to sexism and cultural appropriation).

    On a side note, I find this entire concept, with its indulgence in quackery and pseudoscience, and its insinuation that 21st century medicine (you know, the thing that is able to treat many a life-threatening or life-limiting disease whereas your pot pourri would make scant difference) is somehow 'oppressive' and we need to "go back to nature" in order to liberate ourselves really grating. Even those who manage to get past the Safer Spaces Stasi will undoubtedly be in a position of true privilege purely by being in a situation where they can make these attacks on modern medicine, since they have never been faced with the threats to health that come from living where healthcare and sanitation is limited. At least they aren't advocating homeopathy, that's all I can say.

    Bloody roots... :D
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2018
  7. 8ball

    8ball Considerably more oppressed than yow

    As opposed to white supremacist "science"!! :mad:
    Sunset Tree likes this.
  8. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    True, it's all the work of Babylon...
  9. NoXion

    NoXion It's been 600 years...

    Apparently their gathering has been cancelled because they got criticised for turning down the help of two white guys with dreads. Fucking seriously?
    MochaSoul, Riklet, campanula and 3 others like this.
  10. Celyn

    Celyn Well-Known Member

    What's funny is that despite some long-winded inclusive types stuff, their flyer for the tragically cancelled event gives dates and venue. Fine, but someone living at the other end of town and with no connections to the University might not feel enormously confident heading off to this venue described only as Leeds University Union.

    Why not give its location, mention nearby bus routes, emphasise all members of public welcome, use Bloggs St entrance and follow signs to room X on third floor, mentioning access for anyone with mobility problems etc? Am I being too nitpicking here? OK, but just blithely saying Student Union as though all residents know it is quite "in-group", I think. They do seem to be an amusing bunch.
    Sea Star likes this.
  11. LynnDoyleCooper

    LynnDoyleCooper Up against the wall motherfucker.

    I think it's that they felt like they didn't have the capacity to put on the gathering and also deal with the fallout and issues around them banning the people from being on the panel.

    One of the people banned has apparently kicked off a bit (as have some of his friends/colleagues) which of course has enabled the gathering organizers to go on about white privilege.
    Celyn and NoXion like this.
  12. Jeff Robinson

    Jeff Robinson Well-Known Member

  13. Tom A

    Tom A Goat among sheep

    I am not surprised that being white and wearing dreads was enough to warrant shunning. It just seems to be part of the course in "social justice" circles these days. I would be interested to know what this "kicking off" entailed, I found nothing from a brief search of Twitter, and there isn't anything on their Facebook page (which has just over 100 members).
    NoXion likes this.
  14. bimble

    bimble noisy but small

    More schools in America taking to kill a mocking bird off the reading lists, because it contains the n word. Probably inevitable in current climate but seems sad, to me.
    Beats & Pieces likes this.
  15. That’ll be Huckleberry Finn gone too then.
    Beats & Pieces likes this.
  16. Idris2002

    Idris2002 put humans in tube

    They produced a schools edition with the relevant word ommitted a while back.

    I'm not arsed about this at all. I well remember my granny, who voted FF her all life, explaining to me why you don't use that particular anagram of "ginger".
  17. Idris2002

    Idris2002 put humans in tube

    Celyn, flypanam, Tom A and 1 other person like this.
  18. Not trying to invoke Godwin’s but nevertheless I’m not particularly down with book bannings.
    Tom A and NoXion like this.
  19. Idris2002

    Idris2002 put humans in tube

    No one's talking about banning any books. bimble was talking about schools in America talking TKAM off reading lists. My guess is that they're doing that out of cowardice, but it's far from the same thing as banning it.
  20. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    There's a v useful Walter Benn Michaels piece in the new issue of nonsite:The Political Economy of Anti-Racism I'm going to pull more quotes than normal as a) it's v important and utterly central to the discussion here and b) i think lot of people will not read it.

    There is also a long Adolph Reed piece in the new issue but i'm not sure it's the one mentioned by WBM but this from the conclusion suggests they are still thinking on same lines:

    That is a crucial context within which we should understand antiracists’ tendency to align with Wall Street Democrats in denouncing calls for general redistribution and their insistence that Trump’s victory most meaningfully expresses the depth of commitments to white supremacy, sexism, and homophobia particularly among “white working class” voters. The contention that working-class disaffection from Clintonite neoliberalism most of all expresses backlash against blacks and others is an argument, as Clinton’s snide dismissal of Sanders indicates, that economic inequality is not a central concern for blacks, women, immigrants, LGBT or transgender people. A year into the Trump presidency and unimpeded Republican control of Congress and of most state governments has confirmed what many on the left have known all along, that the right’s agenda is an all-out attack on working people, no matter what their racial and gender classifications and identities or sexual orientations. The alliance of Democratic neoliberalism and an identity-based notion of social justice has contributed to this nightmarish outcome precisely by diminishing the significance of a policy orientation that abets upward redistribution and intensifying economic inequality and racializing the working class as white losers.
  21. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Neo-liberalism is the dominant ideology and identity politics is the left face of it.
    vanya, stethoscope, mather and 7 others like this.
  22. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    The Reed piece is very very strong. It's particularly interesting on something that has been under discussion on here recently - institutional racism.. He traces the material development of the concept (in the US at least) to an accommodation - or more bluntly, a sell out or buy off - by black elites to the growing divorce of black politics from class politics from the mid 60s onwards (Reed outlined how in his view this happened before this section) with the reward of a privileged position within the coming economic changes of policing the racial boundaries of neo-liberalism - in effect, acting as the guarantor of a racially representative inequality. Or as Benns would have it, in highlighting where the system is throwing up unexpected inefficiencies in its pursuit of the production of justified inequalities. Here lies the legitimating roots of liberal neo-liberalism (for example, it's why and how liberals, including CRI on here, can argue that universal health care and initiatives like free tuition are racist) - and why the choice isn't class politics vs identity politics today but the proper recognition of identity politics as a class politics.

    Again, how far this maps onto the UK i'm not sure - certainly not directly - but there is surely no question as to where our home grown identarians/liberal neo-liberals/etc are taking their lead from.
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2018
  23. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    From the Reed article..

    Black Politics After 2016

  24. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    sealion likes this.
  25. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    It's where you prescribe foxglove and belladonna for ALL ailments.
  26. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

    A line has been crossed

    Also a new piece/reply from Shuja Haider in the new issue of Dissent.

    From Identity Politics to Emancipation

  27. Sea Star

    Sea Star this place is too unfriendly for me

    :mad: twats!!
    crossthebreeze likes this.
  28. Sea Star

    Sea Star this place is too unfriendly for me

    no. I am disabled - self identified or not - have a diagnosis for autism. It does not entitle me to anything apart from protection if I am discriminated against for being autistic, or my reasonable needs aren't met. Self ID is a good idea because I know autistic people who cannot get diagnoses due to cuts in the NHS or because they have a doctor who doesn't believe them. And yet they still have the sorts of difficulties that autistic people experience, so it enables them to access those reasonable adjustments, though probably not the protections. And it allows disabled people - or people who would otherwise be categorised disabled - to refuse that label (I can't say I understand why but I do know that in the autistic community many refuse to see it as a disability - I wish I was so fortunate!).
  29. The39thStep

    The39thStep Well-Known Member

    Cant disagree with most of what he says tbh and I like the hyperthetical question 'what are you going to do for us?'. I once had a chat to him on a train from London to York I think it was. It was the period where although he said some good things and I think he was around the Campaign group in the Labour party for a while he also came out with a lot of anti SWP/Militant stuff. He was very anti Tony Benn and considered to be a Kinnock loyalist. However he was very polite in our conversation and was prepared to have a chat. I was in the SWP at the time and when I mentioned that half way through he said 'But you seem too sensible to be a Trot and you're not a student'.
    Fozzie Bear likes this.
  30. Joe Reilly

    Joe Reilly Well-Known Member

    Identity politics is about creating a black middle class (as a buttress to the white middle class) at the direct expense of a black working class.

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