Identity Politics: the impasse, the debate, the thread.

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by danny la rouge, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. Sunset Tree

    Sunset Tree Well-Known Member

    Sometimes it's good to blow off a little steam on this thread when you run into particularly annoying examples elsewhere. I do it myself, even though I'm never really sure it's helpful in moving the discussion forward.

    I see stuff like Jeff Robinson posted all the time on fb groups or twitter nowadays. Arguing at source can be exhausting as it's like arguing with a cult.
     
    Jeff Robinson likes this.
  2. Red Cat

    Red Cat Well-Known Member

    Nobody is obliged to use social media. I think doing so gives a very skewed view of things.
     
    kabbes and maomao like this.
  3. Sunset Tree

    Sunset Tree Well-Known Member

    Not obliged to but everyone does nowadays. I don't seek out political stuff but even in non-political spaces many of the assumptions of idpol are dominant.

    E.g. a music group I was on recently where they had a big witch hunt 'calling out' someone for not understanding disability issues, with loads of replies saying if you're not disabled you're not allowed to comment. Trigger warnings on completely random topics (is a trigger warning really necessary because your post mentions alcohol?).

    It's not annoying enough to delete social media but annoying enough to occasionally complain on here!

    I do agree it can skew things and wonder how much of it transfers to real life. But a lot of people form their opinions through online communities so it's not completely irrelevant.
     
  4. Magnus McGinty

    Magnus McGinty Wh♂️

    Um, this is social media.
     
    mojo pixy and TopCat like this.
  5. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Don’t ruin it!
     
    Magnus McGinty likes this.
  6. Red Cat

    Red Cat Well-Known Member

    So clever.

    It's understood that people mean by social media facebook and twitter and whatever the youth are using.
     
  7. Red Cat

    Red Cat Well-Known Member

    I think there's much more exposure to misogyny online than there is in daily life. I don't encounter what I would call misogyny on a daily basis, whereas I do face oppression daily in the attacks on health care, health care workers, teachers, child care, workers whose work is about relationships, emotional work, work done by women etc. I think my state of mind would be quite different if I was exposed to misogyny daily.
     
  8. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    I don’t.
     
  9. Sunset Tree

    Sunset Tree Well-Known Member

    Ok not literally everyone. For those of us who do, I feel this stuff is becoming a lot more widespread.
     
  10. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    There is no such thing as a non-political space.
     
  11. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Don't be daft.
     
    MadeInBedlam likes this.
  12. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    That new year optimism will soon wear off
     
    Beats & Pieces likes this.
  13. killer b

    killer b No Hateration, No Holeration. in this Dancery

    It's true, there are no non political spaces, and no non political stances.
     
    J Ed and Beats & Pieces like this.
  14. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    Why on earth would you think that? It is a fundamental ethical question, arguably it has been the question since Socrates.

    If you want to start engaging with this question I suggest you start with Plato's 'Alcibiades'.
     
  15. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Do you not think you’re being overly literal Beats & Pieces ?

    Non-political may mean without any political dynamic and/or outside political influence. Which yes, would be daft.

    But it may mean merely not-explicitly political, not an activist group. Do you think no such spaces exist?
     
    Sunset Tree likes this.
  16. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Of course the irony is that a lot of the concepts in IDPol activism - safe spaces,mindfulness of triggers etc - *are* appropriate outside of activism - eg in mental health/therapy settings.

    But one of the goals of ‘recovery’ is the (re)development of resilience, of the capacity to cope with a world that cares very little for your feelings.
     
    Plumdaff and Sunset Tree like this.
  17. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    In short - no. I would change the word political to 'power'.
     
  18. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Every (human) space that exists everywhere is explicitly about political change/activism?
     
  19. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    It is about power. Politics is just one manifestation of power relations.
     
  20. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    You’re reading into others statements what you believe they ‘ought’ to mean. If you had a different approach to language you’d get a lot more from conversations.
     
  21. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    If that is what you want to think, fine.
     
  22. Sunset Tree

    Sunset Tree Well-Known Member

    In the post I used 'non-political' just to mean a space where politics wasn't the subject of interest. It's not a non-political space in the broader sense.
     
    MadeInBedlam likes this.
  23. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Alas, my optimism was also misplaced
     
  24. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    That reads as being akin to walking in to a room with a self-imposed blindfold.
     
  25. Beats & Pieces

    Beats & Pieces 24601 / 9430 Banned

    I was being polite.
     
  26. Sunset Tree

    Sunset Tree Well-Known Member

    Perhaps I should've phrased it better but thought it was clear what I meant, since I described it was a music group. I wasn't making an argument that politics don't exist in that group, but that people don't join it specifically to discuss politics.
     
    MadeInBedlam likes this.
  27. MadeInBedlam

    MadeInBedlam Arm the mentally ill

    Well, we’ve all seen how you behave when you’re not thinking of your manners. It’s a positive.
     
  28. TruXta

    TruXta tired

    Sure, in a cosmic sense. In a mundane sense most spaces aren't political.
     
  29. J Ed

    J Ed Follow Back Pro Expropriation

    Depends on how your political consciousness maps on to the world and your daily experience, doesn't it? I'm sure that you have met people who say they don't know about, or aren't into politics, but who offer a variety of opinions on various subjects in a way that you would be wrong if you said was anything other than political.
     
  30. killer b

    killer b No Hateration, No Holeration. in this Dancery

    Not in a cosmic sense. In a mundane, everyday way, all our interactions with other people are political. The idea that politics is somehow separate from everyday life is a deeply damaging one.
     
    J Ed likes this.

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