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Identity Politics: the impasse, the debate, the thread.

Discussion in 'theory, philosophy & history' started by danny la rouge, Sep 20, 2017.

  1. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    It's the only answer I can give, and if there are posters here whose politics are actively opposed to mine there are more (I feel) whose are not.

    I don't really have an adversarial mindset here. Poke at it if you like but for me the enemy as such is outside of these boards.
     
    sealion likes this.
  2. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Absolutely not what is being said Dial.
     
  3. dialectician

    dialectician Well-Known Member

    Well so am i arguably (family background) but on the individual level you can only talk about relations I.E: capitalists/workers right?
     
  4. DotCommunist

    DotCommunist my world is fire and blood

    A bit like Engels but with numbers things rather than factory owning
     
  5. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I understand the significance of the forum over and above the content.
     
  6. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    I would say that is right, but identity politics wants to talk about in-groups and out-groups, not relations (except for identity relations, which are different)
     
    dialectician likes this.
  7. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    Number wrangling is the new factory ownership, or something. Tumpty tumpty cotton mills finance bills.
     
  8. dialectician

    dialectician Well-Known Member

    Identity relations just sounds like a obfuscatory concept ripe for abuse tbf.
     
  9. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    I'm not sure I understand ''the significance of the forum over and above the content''
    I'm just saying that I don't come here for a fight. Your mileage may vary.
     
    sealion likes this.
  10. kabbes

    kabbes "A top 400 poster"

    I don’t come here to not have a fight.
     
  11. JimW

    JimW 支那暗杀团

    I'll hold your coat.
     
    sealion and 19force8 like this.
  12. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I meant that I find it odd that your objection to a particular position seems so tied up with where that position is expressed, rather than what it consists of.
     
  13. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    It isn't.

    I somehow manage to negotiate all kinds of situations with all kinds of people without conflict. I like to think of it as being a well-adjusted adult.
     
    sealion likes this.
  14. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Hippy!:mad:
     
    mojo pixy likes this.
  15. newbie

    newbie undisambiguated

    to what end? You say, in the first of those, "All nationalism has the misdirection that its allegiance tends to be towards a state.". Sure, I agree, but that has nothing to do with nationality which is not an allegiance it's an identity. I have a nationality but am not a nationalist. That's true of huge numbers of people to a greater or lesser extent, especially if you discount supporting the national team at the footie. Just as there are plenty who express nationalist allegiance to a state they don't hold nationality for.
     
    mather likes this.
  16. mojo pixy

    mojo pixy unquantifiable hazards

    I hate hippies. They actually are the enemy.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017
  17. danny la rouge

    danny la rouge This is definitely the darkest timeline

    To the end of seeing that the points you raise are covered.
     
  18. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    thanks

    not yet - december

    Will have to wait and see.

    I'm still a Unite member. Thanks for the encouragement
     
  19. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    I suspect that it's safe to say that most of your co-workers have been affected by class, though. If you're working class or lower middle class, that will have been the case from when you first went to school, although you might not recognise it. Then you've got the issue that the "lower" down the class ladder you are born, the poorer your life-chances are. This isn't stuff that any identity politics I've seen practiced in the last 30 years, has analysed. I've seen plenty of decent analysis by academics like Paul Gilroy, based around a class construction, but not by identity politics, which seems to be somewhat of an ideological magpie, nicking bits and pieces of research out-of-context, then using them to make id politics-supportive blanket statements.
     
    Sunset Tree and sealion like this.
  20. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    That is part of what modern politics is, though.
     
  21. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I guess.
     
  22. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    I suppose we could say that a precursor to this sort of shittery can be found in post-war Ulster politics, where some elements of the electorate were persuaded to vote along religious lines, because "Prod" or "Taig", with little regard to the actual policies. :(
     
    sealion likes this.
  23. ViolentPanda

    ViolentPanda Hardly getting over it.

    I think it's inescapable as a venue for politics. Unfortunately, often the analysis people give their political outpourings on Facebook is poor, and even more unfortunately, if they have followers/adherents, those people often don't question or point up the lack of analysis.

    For me, identity politics in the form quantified at the start of this thread, lacks analysis beyond a self-perpetuating "I say that a, b and c are true, therefore a, b and c are true". That's not to say that some other mode of id-pol won't come along with a more nuanced social analysis, but nothing I've seen yet has convinced me that that anyone is halfway there.
     
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  24. Fozzie Bear

    Fozzie Bear Well-Known Member

    Which leads us to the 1990s and the muslim vote:
    Croissants and roses - New Labour, communalism, and the rise of muslim Britain
     
  25. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    Yes. People with an IDPol/liberal perspective often seem to take a nuance-free, sentimental moralist position, and act all offended that anyone should have the temerity to apply some critical thinking to it. Like that's a personal attack. Yesterday, I got ticked off for being "rude" and "demanding" for politely asking a poster for some evidence to back up their assertions.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 6:16 PM
  26. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    How can I determine that the spat in question actually had anything to do with ID politics?
     
  27. Athos

    Athos Well-Known Member

    I didn't assert that it does, necessarily. I was talking about the mindset and practices of the IDpolers/liberals. Which they bring to bear in a number of contexts.
     
  28. elbows

    elbows WoeTimer

    Ah OK. Not sure I've seen that many political positions that don't involve some people behaving that way at times, especially in the heat of the moment & in text on forums.
     
  29. Rutita1

    Rutita1 Scum with no integrity, apparently.

    Because he says so. Because it is always their fault, them, over there. Their behaviours and beliefs are the problem. Point, point, point...other, other, other...externalise everything that is apparently unacceptable whilst never actually being transparent about what perspective and actual experience that informs these judgements. Hiding behind a superficial online persona and OH try hard, DESPARATELY AND TIME CONSUMING HARD, pick your targets, attack, attack, attack....claim victim hood or blame them if they dare to call you out or fuck you off for doing so.

    Slivver and snake and fork tongue your way around...say the right things so that the vanguard believe you are one of them, whatever and whomever that is today, on this thread. If you are questioned, feign innocence, feign humbleness. Quickly return to blaming those others though just in case, never let them get too close, or personal...grandstand and showcase, compete and win...it's their fault, them idpolitickers and liberals over there, If only they were like us, not them.

    A little poem i've written.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2017 at 9:13 PM
    spanglechick and friendofdorothy like this.
  30. butchersapron

    butchersapron blood on the walls

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