taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Let us suppose a hypothetical person lives in the Gtr Manchester area and knows quite a lot of people who would be up for putting spanners in the beuracratic works. What could such a person / people consider?
ID Cards - and so it begins....
- Thread starter liampreston
- Start date
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
well
hypothetically of course
as someone who has done work on public databases involving tens of millions of individuals
The major thing you can do to make information useless is to mess up the primary identifier, which is the key that is used to identify you between different databases as being the same person. This is usually a conglomeration of several different pieces of information, as there are often errors, so just missing one out won't help. I don't know the specific details of this one but the following lies would I expect be helpful (and not just leaving them out, replacing them with a believable but wrong value):
* your DOB
* your postcode
* your NHS number (this is an increasingly good unique identifier, and is not just a random integer - see http://www.govtalk.gov.uk/gdsc/html/frames/NHSnumber-2-0-Release.htm )
* your gender
* your local GP
* your PCT
One might notice a lot of healthcare-related information there. That will be used by any global system. It is part of the whole point; people are understandably quite willing to give away identifying data if it looks like they'll live longer. If you really want to avoid database tracking, "forget" your NHS number and give a different address every time you see the doctor.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
There's democracy for you!
The Conservative Party have a woeful record on ID cards (they voted for the current scheme in 2004, and the "right-wing" Michael Howard was all for introducing them back in the 1990s). Their opposition is fiscal at best, opportunism at worst. Still, if they do get ride of the nasty serf badges, they'll have done something worthwhile, albeit for all the wrong reasons.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Thanks a lot for that FM.
Im relieved you were being hypothetical. Hypothetical people would need to find a balance between causing as much timewasting as hypothetically possible but with confidence at not being traced or landing other citizens in the hypothetical shit. Hypothetical organising of any activity is better face to face of course, and it is further relief that boards such as this would not be used to convey advice and opinions on such heinous, allbeit hypothetical, criminal deeds.
Im relieved you were being hypothetical. Hypothetical people would need to find a balance between causing as much timewasting as hypothetically possible but with confidence at not being traced or landing other citizens in the hypothetical shit. Hypothetical organising of any activity is better face to face of course, and it is further relief that boards such as this would not be used to convey advice and opinions on such heinous, allbeit hypothetical, criminal deeds.
taffboy gwyrdd
Embrace the confusion!
Caution: this link will probably make you angry
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/268664aa-39cb-11de-b82d-00144feabdc0.html
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/268664aa-39cb-11de-b82d-00144feabdc0.html
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
Thanks for the caution, it did.
Mr Blunkett's sneaky suggestion about "biometric passports" is little better. ID cards by the back door. Such passports would doubtless be linked to a central database and include fingerprints. The database is as scary as the cards, probably more so.
It's just the sort of "compromise" I can see the Tories going for.
Wolveryeti
Detty Pig
Fuck me, but did that article just say that we are being charged for the cards and charged for the privilege of providing biometrics to the high street as well?
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
I may be a thick fuck hole head, but I really truly can't see why we are meant to need these things.
I look at the government press releases, I follow the debates on the radio... none of it makes any sense.
I have said this before on here, but here goes again.
If you know your name and address already, and you are prepared to tell anyone who you think should know, why on earth would you need a little bit of plastic to do it for you unless you were like that bloke in that film?
You know, the one about the bloke with a 15 minute memory.
I look at the government press releases, I follow the debates on the radio... none of it makes any sense.
I have said this before on here, but here goes again.
If you know your name and address already, and you are prepared to tell anyone who you think should know, why on earth would you need a little bit of plastic to do it for you unless you were like that bloke in that film?
You know, the one about the bloke with a 15 minute memory.
Azrael
circling Airstrip One
All about control. Information is power. Nothing, of course, to do with security.
By the time the tories inevitably return, will they be able to repeal this nonsense? Never mind will they want to (unlikely).
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Well they've said time and time again that they'll drop them like a hot rock.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
and tories never lie, do they?
and i bet they will go on to say, once they ascend from hell, that their intentions are no longer possible - cue Cameron posturing and shaking his fist at Brown. Typical political bollocks.
Bob_the_lost
Elsewhere
Heh, i'd go with Politicians but you have a point.
tangentlama
Nameless voices crying
Why is it inevitable that the Tories return?
I've heard from people who voted Labour last time around refuse to vote for either Labour or Cons and plumping instead to give the Liberals a turn.
Do you really think anyone but the tories are going to win, really? seriously?
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
Nothing is inevitable. But it is pretty bloody likely. Lib-dems might just do well enough to hold the balance of power, which would make things interestng (on the id cards front anyway)
chainsaw cat
Tea. Biccies. Happy now?
I just think we are lucky lucky people to have such a wide spread of opinion amongst our politicians.
And such good ones too.
And such good ones too.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
The sort of person who wants to be able to do normal things such as buy alcohol, get into clubs etc, once all the off-licenses and so forth make the showing of an ID card a condition of sale. And you can bet this will become a condition of their licenses when they come up for renewal.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
interesting thought.
I doubt that they will - not during this trial. It is still a voluntary scheme, that may well not become permanent. The breweries are unlikely to suddenly switch from the cards they already use - on a nationwide basis - for one limited trial.
But it is a point worth noting and for the Mancs to make sure it doesn't come to pass.
I doubt that they will - not during this trial. It is still a voluntary scheme, that may well not become permanent. The breweries are unlikely to suddenly switch from the cards they already use - on a nationwide basis - for one limited trial.
But it is a point worth noting and for the Mancs to make sure it doesn't come to pass.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
The term "voluntary" will become meaningless as it becomes harder and harder to anything without producing one.
I can easily see shops, bars, etc being required to demand the ID card from customers as a condition of their license-renewal or issue.
This could well happen before the nationwide rollout of the cards in order to be able to show how "successful" the pilot scheme was ("a 90% take up in Manchester where the scheme has been piloted!" will drool the propoganda).
These cards may never actually be compulsory in the full legal sense - just impossible to function without one.
SpookyFrank
Don't swallow the cap
This is what worries me, I'm sure I'm not the only one who has long suspected something like this. Ever since the government went batshit over ID for alcohol and fags a few years back it's seemed like a strategy for getting people used to carrying/showing ID for normal day to day stuff like getting ripped on special brew. I think the oldest person I've heard of being asked for ID in a shop was about 50, which suggests that perhaps it's not just the evils of underage drinking (which, would you adam and eve it, still goes on!
) that the man is concerned about.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
that won't happen with this trial, it would be completely counter-productive. that one headline would be well outweighed by all the complaining that would undoubtedly go on. Maybe if it does get introduced nationally that wil happen - itis certainly a major risk and problem with the schemes, some councils will try and do that. But not in manchester yet.
danny la rouge
Ninja swords for all disabled people
I'm sure that's right.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
poster seems confused between what might after the final implementation and what mighthappen during this trial.
of course it is in his interest to talk up the most miserable aspect of it, and give himself the excuse to sit on his fat arse and do nowt. shame he has to try and talk other people out of doing owt as well.
of course it is in his interest to talk up the most miserable aspect of it, and give himself the excuse to sit on his fat arse and do nowt. shame he has to try and talk other people out of doing owt as well.
Bahnhof Strasse
Let's av ya fuckin' dancin'!
And once it's all up and running you'll be required to swipe your card to make the purchase, the details of the purchase will go on to the database and sold to the highest bidder.
As far as I can tell, this is just a massive market research programme.
FiFi
Hot Cross Bunny
Thats in todays climate.What happens under a future, (more) sinister regime?And once it's all up and running you'll be required to swipe your card to make the purchase, the details of the purchase will go on to the database and sold to the highest bidder.As far as I can tell, this is just a massive market research programme.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I'm talking about the fact that the thin end of the wedge always leads the the thick end.
I can't quite see why all these things won't happen during the manchester trial, either. Neither can I see where in this thread I am trying to "talk other people out of doing owt". I'm actually arguing the opposite.
www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/pdf/ukpga_20060015_en.pdf
Identity Card Act was passed back in 2006 .
People would be nuts to pay £60 to get a card in the Manchester trial. It's been confirmed that you will be entered onto the Database for life which means complying with all the requirements listed in the Act. EG having to inform the State everytime you move or change your details or face upto £1,000 fine.
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