ID Cards - and so it begins....

[Bahnhof Strasse]

A traditional ID card, as in Portugal shows who you are.

The British system is far more than that. It will link to a database on your entire life. Medical, criminal, education, employment histories will all be there. Then as the system rolls out you'll have to show your ID card for everything, to prove you're old enough to buy booze, glue, a knife etc. When a copper stops you, ID please and that incident is logged forever. Libraries, airports, train stations, swimming pools, everywhere you go you will have to swipe yer ID card and your movements will be logged.

And all this information will be available for Big Corps. to buy.

This sounds like tinfoil hat stuff, but this is exactly what they have said the ID card will be used for. Except selling the info to the highest bidder. They won't state that they will not sell the info however, which pretty much guarantees that they will.

 

[tangentlama]

The report's authors looked at each of the major databases used by the government and ranked them using a 'traffic light' color-coding system. Eleven government databases were coded red, and should be "scrapped or substantially redesigned", according to the report. These include the National Identity Register, the communications database behind the Intercept Modernization Program, and the National DNA Database.

The National Identity Register--the database behind the government's plan to record all U.K. citizens' biometric and personal details for its identity-cards scheme--was criticized by the report's authors for breaking down privacy barriers.

"A National Identity Number will make it easier to link together information held on individuals across other public-sector databases," said the report. "This is worrying because in the United Kingdom, unlike other EU States with strong constitutional protection, there are few safeguards against excessive data exchanges."

Anderson told ZDNet UK on Friday that the National Identity Register would be "a central spine on which to hang all information about a citizen, available to open access".

A national identity card that became essential for government and financial transactions would also establish an audit trail to which the intelligence services and much of the police would have unrestricted access, the report added.

The government has put forward plans to monitor all U.K. citizens' communications by intercepting all online data traffic, including e-mail, instant messaging and social-networking communications. These details would be combined with details of telephone calls and stored in a centralized database. A government consultation about this communications database, which is part of an intelligence-service IT overhaul dubbed the Intercept Modernization Program, was due to begin in March, but has not yet taken place.

The report said that this kind of mass surveillance was overly expensive and antithetical to principles of privacy, and pointed out that the idea had already been criticized by the information commissioner.

"The Information Commissioner's Office has commented that the plans are 'a step too far for the British way of life'," said the report. "Given this assessment, the public opposition, the huge cost of the exercise, and the intent [to allow] the intelligence services...to watch everybody, we have no choice but to rate this as Privacy impact: red."

http://www.zdnetasia.com/news/business/0,39044229,62052453,00.htm

 

[Zapata]

Will the Tories scrap the ID card plan ? I hope they will.

 

[belboid]

their are already 50 different bits of info held about each individual on the card, and this can be added to at any time simply by order of the Home Secretary, no need for any of that irritating 'debate' nonsense. This includes, as B-S says, info on every time your card is 'accessed', so will include all sorts of info about your movements.

 

[dessiato]

A traditional ID card, as in Portugal shows who you are.

The British system is far more than that. It will link to a database on your entire life. Medical, criminal, education, employment histories will all be there. Then as the system rolls out you'll have to show your ID card for everything, to prove you're old enough to buy booze, glue, a knife etc. When a copper stops you, ID please and that incident is logged forever. Libraries, airports, train stations, swimming pools, everywhere you go you will have to swipe yer ID card and your movements will be logged.

And all this information will be available for Big Corps. to buy.

This sounds like tinfoil hat stuff, but this is exactly what they have said the ID card will be used for. Except selling the info to the highest bidder. They won't state that they will not sell the info however, which pretty much guarantees that they will.

This is why I have no problem with carrying ID here in Portugal, but have many concerns about how the data will be used with the UK system.

 

[goebfwai]

Not so long ago there was a big brouhaha about banks charging excessively over the actual base cost for letters advising you'd exceeded your overdraft (£20 for a letter that costs £2 etc).

£30 for the card and £30 for a 5 minute data collection consultation at a P.O. or pharmacy can not possibly be reflective of the costs and represents overcharging on a massive scale.

And £75 for a passport (it cost £19 10 years ago) when the printing costs of the actual documents (about a quid?) and cost of the civil servants time in processing the application or renewal can surely be no more than a tenner...?

 

[tangentlama]

The Lib Dems WILL scrap the ID card, they're already against it.

Mr Clegg, whose own passport is not due for renewal until October 2012, said: "ID cards will be expensive, intrusive and ineffective.

"I urge everyone who is concerned about their introduction to join the NO2ID 'Renew for Freedom' campaign and renew their passport over the coming weeks.

"The Liberal Democrats were the only party to vote against the introduction of identity cards and we're making our opposition clear today by buying ourselves 10 years of freedom from this unnecessary scheme."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5012972.stm

Not so sure about the Tories. They're likely to continue current Labour policies in covert form so no, they won't scrap ID cards and all these plans to criminalise and monitor UK citizens.

 

[belboid]

Yup:

IBM, CSC win UK ID card biometrics contracts

mmm, some interestng stuff in that article -

"Biometric details for the National Identity Scheme will be held on the National Biometric Information Service [run by the UK Borders Agency], while biographical details will be held on the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) database... No government department staff aside from the Identity and Passport Service (IPS) will be able to access either the biometric or biographical details, the source added."

uhh, so the Borders Agency will input half the info, DWP the other half, but none of their staff will be physically able to look at any of it? i think not

 

[Zapata]

Anyone over 16 in the city who holds a UK passport will be able to apply for a card at a post office or pharmacy.

Kind of negates the point of getting a card.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

The Lib Dems WILL scrap the ID card, they're already against it.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/5012972.stm

Not so sure about the Tories. They're likely to continue current Labour policies in covert form so no, they won't scrap ID cards and all these plans to criminalise and monitor UK citizens.

The tories have said they will scrap it too.

Much of the work to set this up has already been done and I would not be surprised to find that the current government hasn't added codicils ensuring that the scheme can't be scrapped without a cost so high to any future administration that they can't realistically stop it.

 

[tangentlama]

The tories have said they will scrap it too.

Much of the work to set this up has already been done and I would not be surprised to find that the current government hasn't added codicils ensuring that the scheme can't be scrapped without a cost so high to any future administration that they can't realistically stop it.

How can we find out that information - about potential codicils that might prevent the scrapping of this scheme?

Majority of citizens didn't and don't want this scheme anyway.

Who exactly do the government work for? Citizens or International Business corporations?

 

[tangentlama]

How come they play with these hi-tech ID cards when they can't do something simple like trace errant fathers who don't pay child maintenance. Instead, they introduce workfare for the mothers/put kids into 8-6 state childcare, rather than put father into work and make him pay maintenance. They government has no common sense at all.

 

[belboid]

I strongly suspect the tories would fucking love to have id cards in, but know how unpopular it is & so have to be against it in opposition. Come the inglorious day, they'll say there's nothng they can do about it.

 

[lewislewis]

The National Assembly for Wales has previously ruled that UK govt ID cards will not be required to access any of the services it provides (NHS, education, etc, but not tax and benefits system). It wouldn't surprise me if the Scottish Parliament has a similar stance.

 

[danny la rouge]

I strongly suspect the tories would fucking love to have id cards in, but know how unpopular it is & so have to be against it in opposition. Come the inglorious day, they'll say there's nothng they can do about it.

I also strongly suspect this.

 

[tangentlama]

I strongly suspect the tories would fucking love to have id cards in, but know how unpopular it is & so have to be against it in opposition. Come the inglorious day, they'll say there's nothng they can do about it.

Yes, that's about as good as it gets with the Tories.
They play their part whilst in opposition, but they're not going to have the balls to scrap them.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

How can we find out that information - about potential codicils that might prevent the scrapping of this scheme?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/scrapping-id-cards-would-cost-16340m-1652677.html

Scrapping plans for a national identity card scheme would cost £40 million, Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said yesterday.


In an attack on the Conservatives, who have pledged to abolish the scheme, Ms Smith said doing so would "not free up a large fund of money to spend on other priorities".

But the Tories accused the Government of deliberately increasing the costs to make it hard for them to abolish the scheme.

Majority of citizens didn't and don't want this scheme anyway.

Apparantly we can't wait to get them: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7712275.stm

Who exactly do the government work for? Citizens or International Business corporations?

What d'ya reckon?

 

[Zachor]

40million is a drop in the ocean compared to how much has been wasted on bankers, hare brained IT schemes, management consultants, PFI, turd polishing (ie making Brown look good) and other shite.

Cheap at twice the price.

New Labour fuck off.

 

[belboid]

aye, cos your beloved tories never piss public money away, or hand it over to all their mates do they?

The worst thing about being involved in this campaign is having to put up with smug tory cunts

 

[dylanredefined]

Its bad enough having to show id to get in a pub be even worse with national id card .Paying for the privilage of being oppresed cheers .

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

I think IBM was awarded at least one of the contracts. Can anyone confirm this? (I'll have a Google).

yes they have been. I think it was in Private Eye.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

40million is a drop in the ocean compared to how much has been wasted on bankers, hare brained IT schemes, management consultants, PFI, turd polishing (ie making Brown look good) and other shite.

Cheap at twice the price.

New Labour fuck off.

Given that you state "vote tory" perhaps you can explain how their policies towards the bankers would have significantly differed from The Clunks "not just a light touch, but a limited touch".

 

[trevhagl]

We should try to find out why the government won't stop the move forward.
Has it signed contracts with the ID-card/DataBase Producers already?

I know someone with a good job in the civil service . He told me 2 years ago that billions were THEN already being invested in the scheme

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Gordon Brown has stated he wants the scheme to be "revenue neutral" - now he is obviously not one to trust on economics but it is clear that some of the costs are to be recouped from flogging our private data to corporations.

It's flat out disgusting.

 

[Bahnhof Strasse]

Gordon Brown has stated he wants the scheme to be "revenue neutral" - now he is obviously not one to trust on economics but it is clear that some of the costs are to be recouped from flogging our private data to corporations.

It's flat out disgusting.

ALL AND MORE.

Forgive the cynicism, but this shower of shit is gonna get thrown out of office and on to the boards of all the companies benefiting from these ID cards.

I'd lay a monkey at Ladbrooks, but I doubt they'd take the bet.

 

[poster342002]

People who say they won't have one are going to be in for a nasty shock when they find it's the only form of ID accepted for anything you try to do. Like buying a few cans of beer from a supermarket, for instance. The shops are already geering up for this with their relentless demanding of ID if you look under 25 (yes, it was under 21 but they're now demanding it for under 25. Probably soon to be 30 - and then it'll be ALL alcohol purchases. What else do you think the manufactured panic over "binge drinking" has been in aid of?).

As soon as these poxy things come out, you bet your arse they'll be the only form of ID acccepted anywhere for anything. And loads of thinsg that never even asked for ID before will suddenly start demaning it.

"no, sir, you can't order a pizza without an ID Card number" - in response to "The Obesity Crises(TM)" .

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

People who say they won't have one are going to be in for a nasty shock when they find it's the only form of ID accepted for anything you try to do. Like buying a few cans of beer from a supermarket, for instance. The shops are already geering up for this with their relentless demanding of ID if you look under 25 (yes, it was under 21 but they're now demanding it for under 25. Probably soon to be 30 - and then it'll be ALL alcohol purchases. What else do you think the manufactured panic over "binge drinking" has been in aid of?).

As soon as these poxy things come out, you bet your arse they'll be the only form of ID acccepted anywhere for anything.

That's the idea. I'm still very concerned about complacency among the antis.

 

[editor]

What's really depressing is some of the gormless oafs on the TV thinking that they're a great idea because it "makes it easy to get into clubs."

 

[poster342002]

What's really depressing is some of the gormless oafs on the TV thinking that they're a great idea because it "makes it easy to get into clubs."

Which has only relatively recently become so difficult (along with buying alcohol etc) due to the ID-arsery.

A "need" for the stupid cards is being artificially created over time so that people will welcome their arrival.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Which has only relatively recently become so difficult (along with buying alcohol etc) due to the ID-arsery.

A "need" for the stupid cards is being artificially created over time so that people will welcome their arrival.

Yep. No more so than among the young, who are increasingly fingerprinted for getting school meals and library books. As if those were problems that kept the nation awake at night.

http://www.leavethemkidsalone.com/