Ice Rink / Brixton Market decision day

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by netbob, Feb 3, 2011.

  1. netbob

    netbob Well-Known Member

    Here's some (unedited, with typos) notes form the truly epic planning meeting earlier. I didnt make it to the end (but was there for 4 hours!) so don't know the final decision (it's probably still going on).

    Welcome from the chair Diana Morris (Labour, Thornton Ward). Members of the committee introduce themselves. 4 Labour, 1 Lib Dem. Then council officers.
    First item - declarations of interest. Cllr Brathwith child attends school related to the application. Chair has been ice-skating before. go her! Hardly a major declaration of interest though.
    2 items unrelated to the ice-rink/carpark. Getting those out of the way first.
    Some Tunnels in Waterloo where the council officers haven't done their homework properly. Then something about types of brick (staffordshire blue buff or something) and for Dunraven School. Looks quite nice.
    OK, on to the 3 applications relating to the Streatham Hub / Brixton carpark
    First up is the bit relating to a new carpark on Porden Road which is supposed to provide more parking for people using the market (in place of the multi-story).
    Officers are presenting an overview, followed by something specific on Porden Road. In 2002 planning oked for Streatham hub including an icerink, a swimming pool, public square, housing, and a Tesco store. There was a 106 legal agreement which guaranteed onsite ice rink provision.

    They are now proposing a temporary off-site ice rink which requires the 106 to be varied. AS well as the 106 there are 3 applications which will be taken in turn.

    The officers note that Boris is not happy and is opposing the application (although acknowledge he has now power to direct them). Also Streatham businesses are happy with temporary ice rink as the Streatham Hub will happen faster. Also Sport England have objected. TfL have no objection. Various other exxtra/late comments from Friends of Brixton Market, and others.

    Finally (and interestingly) Tessa Jowel contacted officers urging caution given the level of local opposition.

    Council officers then show lots of pictures and maps (very slowly). Heckling from the audience when council officer gets the size of the new rink wrong (he says temporary rink would be same length, apparently he's wrong).

    No direct mention of Tesco so far. They Who Must Not Be Named.
    Porden Road Residents Group are up. Chair is trying to make 3 of them speak as one in 3 minutes. Audience not impressed.

    Increased noise, pollution and traffic in Porden road if the temporary car park goes ahead. They say they know this because the area was previously used as a works depo when the town centre was being redeveloped. Points out that 3 years isn't very temporary!

    Community safety has not been considered - only one camera - already have a problem with drug dealing/use.

    John Gordon from market Traders Federation is up. Points out that the foods people buy are specialist and bulk. The committee is presented with a huge sack of rice and a huge barrel of oil. Porden Road is too far away. Most shoppers are women - invites members of comitee to lift up barrrel and sack and walk about with them. Also suggests the members borrow a child (there are several in the room) and try carrying them at the same time.
    Ben Tunstall from FBM says that there is an incline on Arcre Lane; It is in a distinct area of the town centre. people will just go to Tescos.
    Another resident of Porden Road is up. Point of Order that there is are discrepancies in the application - different areas and names used. Development plan makes no reference to new parking and will actively seek to reduce parking near Tesco. making the officers look a bit stupid. He's done his homework.
    The applicants for Porden Road (Cllr Sally Prentice & and someone from some kind of Lambeth regeneration department) are invited to respond to the complains form traders and residents.

    The council has a commitment to deliver Streatham Hub. The temporary ice-rink is a way of doing this, but needs more parking, hence Porden Road.

    The committee get to quiz these two:

    Q: "What guarantee that it really will be 3 years"

    A: Within Brixton Master Plan; Tesco will be compelled to remove ice rink after 3 years then they will do something ill-defined else with it; Won't need car-parking so that will also go after 3 years.

    They refuse to guarantee that car-park will be gone after 3 years. There could be another application in 3 years.

    Cllr Palmer then points out that it will be vert hard to actually manoeuvre into the proposed car-park. Transport Officer responds that it is possible. Doesn't sound very convincing. Denies that it is on a cycle route dispute the evidence of lots of cycle signs. Sounds like a technicality.

    Cllr Brathewaite asks what lighting will be available and points out hours will make it very noisy for residents. Applicants offer to close it earlier.

    Cllr Edbrooke asks if the carpark will actually be used. The applicants don't really know, but say they are trying to replace POpes Road as best they can.

    Part 2 - we're on to Popes Road temporary Ice Rink. Lots and lots of people queued up to speak (15 ish?).
    Brixotn Society up first - points out that council change their mind on replacing carpaking, and will loose 280k a year form parking charges. Will Brixton people use it? Will they squeeze Streatham users out? Can we trust Tesco / council to stick to a new 106 agreement? Waste of energy building a temp rink. Air quality already poor in Brixton. Points out that members voted 2 weeks ago to reduce crime, this will increase it.
    Person from the Warewolves special needs hockey team are up. Transport links for users with special needs, in a busy town centre, with heavy equipment, drop off point for users with special needs is not good enough. Have the council looked at the equality impact.
    A mother who is involved with one of the clubs says they are taking her job away, she has devoted herself to keeping the club running. Promises to be a pain in the arse if it goes through.
    Another parent points out that some parents are disabled and need spaces to park.
    Ben Tunstall from Friends of Brixton market again. The next 3 years is critical for Brixton Market. Indoor market landlord is increasing rent. Shoppers are down because of the carpark. The market is Dying on it's feet. Do the comitee want to be responsible for a massive insertion of change at this time?
    James Gardener - skater at the rink since 1975. Runs the (redskins) hockey team. Loosing a party room and cafe as well as an icerink. Popes Road is smaller. Worried about postcode gangs - parents won't send their kids. Streatham 1200 spectator seats, Brixton 400. At a recent game there were 88 cars in the carpark. Kids will get their kit nicked.
    Mike Dwyer - from another special needs hockey club. No store room for recycling kit. No free parking. Too many cars in the market, children nearly run over during the site visit. Cost of parking doubles the cost for parent up to £360 per season. Even then no guarantee for parking.
    John Gordon from Brixton market Traders. Brixton has to compete with Peckham market, Lewisham and Tesco (which sells similar food). The council acknolage the importance of parking in various master plans. 464k square feet of retail in Brixton, based on Tesco that works out as 3,399 free spaces. Porden Road will be £3 an hour. Brixton is surrounded by controleed parking zones.
    Rosie from Rosies Deli. Lives in Peckham were parking is 80p. It takes hours to get your nails done, costs too much in Brixton.
    Coach of under 12's team. He's at the rink 3 days a week coaching. His children and wife figure skate. So he is there a lot. This isnt a compromise, it's a surrender. Streatham is still standing. Kids need to know that their community represent them. Cardiff is using a temporary rink 5 years later. Brighton and other places have lost theirs. Tesco is Monty Burns, don't be is Smithers!.
    10 minute break and then it all starts again - shed loads of people to get through.
    Man form Save Skating in Streatham - the survey of Streatham ice rink missed loads of stuff, didnt even notify the management of the visit so couldn't access all areas. Not an equivalent facility, particularly in terms of parking. The clubs won't last the 3 years. Tesco should honor their original agreement.

    The secretary of state has sent some kind of letter as places a high burden on the committee.
  2. netbob

    netbob Well-Known Member

    part 2

    Lloyd Leon ex-mayor of Lambeth. 1) crime there was a murder at Streatham. 2) kids are scared of gang warfare, blood will be on hands of committee if there is a postcode murder 3) traffic is already a mess 4) administration is in the pocket of Tesco.
    Nicola, Electric Avenue resident. Parking chaos since parking closed. Has there been an equality impact assessment. Crime risk, the market has highest crime in Brixton according to crime maps.
    Donna Sinclare - Options For Change, introduces a colleague who ran an Angle Town youth centre. Been trying to prevent gang violence. This is asking for gang warefare, postcode battles. Postcode warefare is real. "Not one drop of blood on that ice!".

    Matthew, long term local resident. Concerned about local amenity. Residential units right next to the proposed rink. Hours are longer than the rec'. No parking for coaches of visiting teams. Where is the transport assessment? Any development in Brixton should foster the market and involve residents.
    Chair and Cllr Ling complain about recoding of the meeting. Streatham Pulse and Friends of Brixton Market own up to owning the recorders. After lots of tooing and frowing they agree to recording.
    Lib Dem Councillors present photos of kids struggling with heavy equipment. Also witnessed a young person nearly nocked over by a car in Brixton Market. You will be alienating Streatham kids who are scared of the postcode tag. Temp rink will lose at the same time as Brixton Academy, pubs and clubs, so what security for the kids leaving the rink?

    Quotes some marketing shite from the Tesco website about community being important.

    More concern about safty for the kids - Lambeth's own plans describe the area as a no-go area. Tesco will benefit if the market fails.
    Woman from a group representing ice dancers in Stretham. Since this is the only option available, and Tesco will just wait so Brixton is the only option and we have to try and make it work. Not happy that hours are so short because training for ice dancing has to happen after hours, promises they won't be noisy.
    Cllr Kazanthis - his daughter was pictured on the SLP aged 6 campaigning to save the ice rink - she is now 16! It's a far from perfect solution, but is the only option. No fan of Tesco, but needs to go ahead.

    Sounds like Tony Blair. Is telling the committee what they want to hear though. All nodding.
    Matt Parr - Labour councillor for the ward in question. Regrettable that the council has got it's self in this position where a new facility is generating public outrage. He is very concerned about the effects on Coldhabour and the market. SOme of the best shops in Brixton have gone, we need to keep the rest.

    He objected officially saying it shouldn't go ahead is the parking situation could not be sorted. Says the council officers have gone along way on this. We've lost a lot of spaces.

    Parking provision was always going to go down when the carpark shut. We want to reduce car use, but you can't do in in one go. The concerns of traders have not been addressed so he maintains his objections.
    The planning advisers for Tesco are to make a presentation (which is brave or stupid).

    Tesco are committed to delivering the Streatham Hub (really?). They had to reevaluate the scheme because of the economic climate and change the build time. They are just reading out the planning application and mentioning public transport links.

    These guys are really slimy.

    Committee as some questions of them:

    Cllr Bratwaite: shortening of the build period for Streatham Hub - how much will be saved and how much time will be saved?
    Tesco: they need the time to relocate a bus depo [that's a new excuse?] save about 6 months, and then 2 years on build time. Claim they have helped by keeping the skates in their current home for so long. The last thing Tesco wants is for a club to fold. Contradicted himself saying it would save 1 year. Didn't answer what the financial saving would be.

    Tesco admit it was originally going to be a 3 year build, so we are back where we started?

    Cllr Bratwaite: repeats the question about costs.

    Tesco: All the savings are going to pay for the tempoary ice facility. So no savings in financial or time terms.

    Tesco will get 2 years additional trading. This sodesnt go down well with Cllr Bratwaite.

    Cllr Palmer: there is no parity. Parking hasn't been solved and the officers report is poor in relation to parking. e.g. no mention of % of staff parking or special needs. The only swimming pool in the borough is in Brixton so Brixton is already over stretched.

    Tesco: staff have to use public transport.

    Council officers: the report refers to the Warewolves (special needs hockey team) situation. The car park could be closed just for them. Suggesting people can use the surrounding roads.

    Tesco: commit to warewolves that 23 spaces will be made available or Tesco will pay their tickets. [what about other users?].

    Council Officers: coach parking to be sorted later. Park on Coldhabour Lane.
  3. editor

    editor hiraethified

    Cheers for the updates. It sure looked like an epic meeting!
  4. Rushy

    Rushy AKA some / certain posters

    Thanks for posting that. A lot of work.
  5. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    It was - about six and a half hours by my reckoning. Committee passed everything 3-1 with Cllr Edbrooke abstaining on Pope's Rd and S106 variations but agreeing to Porden Rd. Lib Dem Cllr Palmer opposed in all 3 votes.
  6. gaijingirl

    gaijingirl Well-Known Member

    blimey..... and well done Memespring.

    I'm a bit confused though as to what the final decision was.... Streatham Mao's post makes me think the ice rink is coming to Brixton despite all the campaigning... but i'm in my cups and might be reading it wrong...

    eta.. just read the other thread... and really? all those objections and it still got passed?
  7. Minnie_the_Minx

    Minnie_the_Minx someinenhhanding menbag and me ah bollox

    Thanks for update memes.

    Relocating the bus depot? Not heard that before
  8. fortyplus

    fortyplus smug git

    yes GG looks like the Lambeth councillors earned whatever it is Tesco paid them (a pad of post-it notes for their desk, probably). There's no other rhyme nor reason for this abjectly awful decision in the face of massive opposition. Tesco counts, local people don't. Obviously. Lambeth Labour still worships at the Blairite altar and capital can do no wrong. Bring back Ted Knight, at least there was some spunk in Lambeth Labour then.

    Time for direct action?
  9. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    Just to be completely clear, there is no longer a requirement to keep the rink 'on site'. The ice rink will be moved to Brixton, while Tesco now builds everything at once, opening their store earlier. This pisses off pretty much everyone who uses the rink. I can't imagine that local traders really want to see yet another supermarket open, either.

    The 'temporary' rink will move to Pope's Rd, which (from what the Brixton Market Federation said) may well be a death knell to the market.

    Parking facilities will be built at Porden Rd, which has angered residents.

    So yeah, no-one's happy. The only person to speak in favour was (IIRC, I forget her name) a Councillor, who gave the usual talk about how it will bring in money to Brixton (but where in Brixton?) and is an awesome project. You can imagine the boos she got.

    Thankfully you won't have to imagine for long - I recorded the entire thing and even now, at this horrendous time of the morning, I'm cutting it down into a podcast.
  10. leanderman

    leanderman Street Party: July 2

    To my shame, I am quite looking forward to having an ice rink.
  11. editor

    editor hiraethified

    There's nothing wrong with liking the idea of an ice rink on Brixton - the problem is where it is and how it's being done.
  12. editor

    editor hiraethified


    Give us a shout when it's up and I'll get tweeting!
  13. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    Thanks; I've scripted up the first third (Porden Rd) and snipped the audio files, so 2/3 to go. That's about 1hr 30mins material to sift through.

    EDIT: scratch that, more like three and a half. The file's so huge the computer hadn't updated the screen properly.

    Ye gods, I'll be here all weekend. Given that I'm supposed to be drinking this weekend, this is obviously a tragedy of epic proportions.
  14. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    And if it'll be truly temporary.
  15. lordnoise

    lordnoise Well-Known Member

    Great news about the new social housing in Streatham but theres no way in which this decision is in the best interests of Brixton.
  16. fortyplus

    fortyplus smug git

    It's absolutely not in the best interests of Streatham either. Some Streathamites are saying, "at least they won't build the rink on the Common" - but if Tesco had been held to their original s106 agreement, it wouldn't have been. Skating belongs in Streatham. I'm sure Streatham has some redeeming features, but not living there I can't think of many. The ice rink and everything that goes with it is one.

    Popes Road is a pretty terrible place for an ice rink, temporary or permanent, and parking in Porden Rd will benefit only Tesco (who have ambitions to extend the big Brixton store). The market really needs parking if it isn't just to become a tourist attraction; tourists may take pictures of the peeling paint and the pigs' tails, but a postcard and a cup of coffee each won't pay traders' rent.

    This decision is just so wrong, so self-evidently perverse, that there must be some way of challenging it. Judicial review? If so, does anyone know how we might find a lawyer prepared to take it on pro bono?

    If judicial review isn't possible, then I would seriously support some sort of direct action.

    To be clear, I am not directly affected by the decision. I do trade in the market, but my trade isn't affected by lack of parking (lots of other Lambeth and LAP crapness, but not parking). However, my fellow traders have suffered since the multistorey closed, and the case is clear: you aren't going to do your weekly shop at the market if you have to lug it back to Porden Rd. You'll go to Tesco instead.

    As gaijingirl says, Lambeth Labour really are Tesco's bitch. It looks like a clear case of corruption - as in, only a fat bribe would make any sane person come to such a decision. But I don't think the people concerned are smart enough for that. They get moist just thinking that they are doing what Tesco wants.
  17. lordnoise

    lordnoise Well-Known Member

    Sounds like Tesco threatened to pull out altogether if they didnt get their way. It must be difficult for councillors who understand the need for new housing but get nowt from the govt and have to go cap in hand to the likes of Tesco.
    In the long term Brixtons market and shopping centre is of huge importance to Brixton not neccessarily Streatham or the rest of Lambeth. Does anyone know if Lambeth council have any written policy or plans for the future of the centre of Brixton ?
  18. quimcunx

    quimcunx protestant traybake

    Why was the carpark being demolished anyway?
  19. lordnoise

    lordnoise Well-Known Member

    I've found part of the answer to my question on the main Ice Rink thread thanks to Gramsci :

    "When the new Brixton Masterplan was developed much was made of involving the community. Future Brixton was supposed to continue this community based development. A new Town Centre Mge was set up with a Brixton Stakeholders Meetings held on a regular basis.
    This has all been ditched for the sake of Tescos. The only group to be consulted here is Tescos."

  20. fortyplus

    fortyplus smug git

    it was condemned as unsafe: rotted by thirty years of junkie piss
  21. fortyplus

    fortyplus smug git

    found this on CPRE website

    There's a six-week time limit to appeal.
  22. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    According to the woman who spoke for the rink's ice dance groups, Tesco did threaten to pull out at one point.
  23. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

    Has anyone heard from Chuka Umunna on the decision? He was very vocal pre-election about the importance of community, rather than bowing down to big business:

    "They’re [Tesco] all about money, that outfit. If they don’t go ahead and do it, they know what is going to happen. Our community won’t give them any more planning permission."

    Since he has been elected and become Ed Miliband's PPS, I've not heard much from Chuka about the Hub.
  24. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    Is the sewer system a new one as well? They brought that up with the bus depot argument. I don't recall that one.
  25. lang rabbie

    lang rabbie Je ne regrette les gazebos

    I hope you find time in the podcast for Councillor Ruth Ling's absurd over-reaction when she discovered people were recording the meeting. Her comparison of a tape recorder (which everyone could see sitting on the table) to phone hacking was truly laughable.

    It was a shame that there wasn't a spontaneous "I am Spartacus" moment when the chair asked for the record how many people were recording the meeting given the number of people present with who were tweeting throughout!
  26. netbob

    netbob Well-Known Member

    You should do a clip of just this part and put it on youtube with a photo of her.

    Objecting to recoding a public meeting really riled me - she's a pubic representative and needs to get sued to the idea.
  27. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member

    That was my recorder. I was completely flummoxed when she said that - I mean, A) I know this stuff and B) this is a public meeting, publicly funded, with councillors acting publicly telling the public what they were going to do on the public's behalf. Not a private conversation or phone call.

    I wasn't sure if she was trying to just intimidate me (I've had worse from better, I just let it wash over. Tools will be tools, after all) or had just lost the plot. I actually felt embarassed for her at that point...

    That said, the insanity of asking to record a public meeting makes me want to prank them in any way that makes the question itself look as stupid as it is, Mark Thomas style.

    I was going to put it in a totally separate blog post of it's own. That said, I'm still working on this one (it's beautiful...) so I may just forget out of tiredness...

    I have had a thought about that - like trying to get at least one person at every meeting to record, or, as I say, pranks. After all, minutes are anodyne pap and take too long to come out. I know we'd be doing the council's job for them, but I think it could also be hilarious. And a gift for local bloggers and newsies.
  28. Streatham_Mao

    Streatham_Mao Active Member




    Disturbingly Freudian though...
  29. Tricky Skills

    Tricky Skills Well-Known Member

  30. netbob

    netbob Well-Known Member

    whoops :oops:

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