I witnessed riot police assault 15 year old youths...

[Fez909]

Ignoring the fact that should the reason for arrest be true, they would have been nicked immediately, rather than at a later date, there is no doubt in my mind (if the account in the OP is true) that the use of force was inappropriate.

A kid backing off into a fence doesn't constitute a threat, or resisting arrest. So why the use of force? The first course of action is surely to try to arrest the suspect calmly, without force. Then, if such a course of action is not appropriate, to use reasonable force to complete the arrest. Grabbing someone by the jaw and throwing them into a fence as a first course of action doesn't seem reasonable to me.

 

[detective-boy]

An illegal arrest is an illegal arrest pal, too much violence/force etc...

Unless you know everything which led up to the arrest, you cannot possibly say it is "illegal".

Unless you have heard the explanation for the use of force and tested that account by any means possible, you cannot possibly say there was "too much force".

And please don't call me "pal". I'm not.

 

[revol68]

if it's ture that they threatened to rape the WPC then what exactly did they expect to get as a reaction?

 

[The Black Hand]

Unless you know everything which led up to the arrest, you cannot possibly say it is "illegal".

Unless you have heard the explanation for the use of force and tested that account by any means possible, you cannot possibly say there was "too much force".

And please don't call me "pal". I'm not.

Pal, obviously the level of force used was illegal. Contrary to what you say there are standards of public service beyond which unacceptable behaviour breaks the law. And in this case it did. Here you are trying to stretch the law in the polices favour, when it suits you, you argue the opposite. So pal, the police break the law and are not held to account. They try to deny it, and their defenders such as yourself do to... Anyway Pal, we've been there before and you're not going to change...

 

[The Black Hand]

if it's ture that they threatened to rape the WPC then what exactly did they expect to get as a reaction?

Standards of behaviour and practice already contained within the rule of law already perhaps? There is meant to be innocence until proven guilty... But then, you're only a kid

 

[detective-boy]

Anyway Pal, we've been there before and you're not going to change...

Unlike you, I would always rather know what the facts and explanations are before making a judgment. But you, as usual, seem confident in your fucking God-like ability to simply "know". So fine.

Anyway, cunt, we've been there bore and you're not going to change ...

 

[The Black Hand]

Unlike you, I would always rather know what the facts and explanations are before making a judgment. But you, as usual, seem confident in your fucking God-like ability to simply "know". So fine.

Anyway, cunt, we've been there bore and you're not going to change ...

Anyway cuntychops, you are not interested in the police ever being held responsible before a court of law for their behaviour so you can fuck right off pal. You are a boring right wing managerial twat. End of. Now you can FOAD.

 

[revol68]

Standards of behaviour and practice already contained within the rule of law already perhaps? There is meant to be innocence until proven guilty... But then, you're only a kid

it's just common sense though, you say something like that anyone and you're liable to take a bit of a kicking, say it to a copper and you've really fucked up.

 

[In Bloom]

I'm pretty surprised to see our resident anarcho-Marxist expecting to see the police apply the letter of the law equally and fairly, personally

 

[TAE]

Unless you know everything which led up to the arrest, you cannot possibly say it is "illegal".

Unless you have heard the explanation for the use of force and tested that account by any means possible, you cannot possibly say there was "too much force".

Never? If I see an old lady walking down the street and a copper pulls up, beats her to a pulp and then shoots here repeatedly, I'd be pretty sure that the cop acted illegally. So I think in this case, if there was no resistance, no threatning weapon, it is fair to say that the cop very probably was using excessive force.

I've seen plenty of over-the-top actions by the police at various football matches. They sometimes just cannot be bothered to be civilised.

And some of those over-the-top actions by the police did help save my skin once or twice, but they were still out of order IMO.

 

[The Black Hand]

I'm pretty surprised to see our resident anarcho-Marxist expecting to see the police apply the letter of the law equally and fairly, personally

They make 'em - we break them But seriously the rule of law is an advance from autocratic and monarchical rule...

The police should be encouraged to uphold the law (i know they can't but that's another discussion), the public demands no less than respect and fair treatment....

 

[revol68]

They make 'em - we break them But seriously the rule of law is an advance from autocratic and monarchical rule...

The police should be encouraged to uphold the law (i know they can't but that's another discussion), the public demands no less than respect and fair treatment....

i see you've extended your hysterical psyche into political analysis now.

 

[The Black Hand]

i see you've extended your hysterical psyche into political analysis now.

These are views I have held for some time... I am older than you remember...

 

[In Bloom]

They make 'em - we break them But seriously the rule of law is an advance from autocratic and monarchical rule...

The police should be encouraged to uphold the law (i know they can't but that's another discussion), the public demands no less than respect and fair treatment....

How is it "another discussion"? You can't expect the police to act fairly, that's not what they're there for.

If somebody's going to beat the crap out of me or lock me in a cell, I'm less than concerned whether or not they keep to the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

 

[cemertyone]

Sometimes, and there are perfectly good procedures to reform those officers whose high spirits occasionally get the better of them.

.

Yeap that`s true ......and as an officer from Gypsy Hill police station has learnt to his cost....it can go both ways.It`s not just cops with batons that can give it out. He was most surprised to see us outside his door last Sunday just to let him know that it can work both ways.......his face was a peach.........

 

[detective-boy]

Never? If I see an old lady walking down the street and a copper pulls up, beats her to a pulp and then shoots here repeatedly, I'd be pretty sure that the cop acted illegally. So I think in this case, if there was no resistance, no threatning weapon, it is fair to say that the cop very probably was using excessive force.

Your post is perfectly reasonable. The difference between you and the Attica cunt is that you use the words "pretty sure" and "very probably" whereas Attica simply states their instant judgment as fact, without acknowledging that any additional information or explanation could even exist which would change that.

Attica is an arrogant cunt. You are perfectly reasonable. All for the sake of four little words. And I agree with you that it appears excessive in the circumstances described. (A view implicit from my first post on this thread where I took issue with someone who suggested it was a waste of time reporting it).

 

[lights.out.london]

I've seen plenty of over-the-top actions by the police at various football matches. They sometimes just cannot be bothered to be civilised.[/size]

...and I've seen thug Plod go too far at footie and both sets of fans turn on them. I saw four Plod get the absolute fuck beaten out of them at the Salt Market in Glasgow by...wait for it... Celtic and Hearts fans . They (Plod) were trying to drag two scared wee boys into a van and were being really rather brutal about it. The Plod class traitors didn't fare so well up against grown men of their own size and age.

Saw something similar at a Forest vs Palace match. A copper too quick with his stick got kicked all the way down the terracing and kicked all the way back up again.

Loving that work.

 

[paolo]

"Loving that work."

I think that's a bit sick and twisted.

I don't think I'm loving any kind of world where - when someone lamps someone unjustly - they get 10 times lamping in return. It's just not something I'd enjoy watching.

I wouldn't "love it" seeing a rowdy bloke get the shit kicked out them by police, and I wouldn't "love it" seeing rowdy copper get the shit kicked out them by the public.

Your dreams sound like nightmares to me.

 

[chainsaw cat]

not true at all, indeed most of the Met's wastage of people pre-retirement is to other forces (who save the costs of training their own officers).



QUOTE]


So that's why there are so many cunt coppers spread around the Shires.....

 

[johnnymarrsbars]

random attacks by police in riot gear do happen. i was beaten with a truncheon on my leg by a copper in full on riot gear after asking where they were taking my friend (a woman in her 30s) when they had her pinned to the floor and standing on her causing her so much pain she was screaming in agony.

all we did was walk out of a gig at the wrong time in the wrong place when something entirely unrelated to us kicked off.

nothing ever came of it. i went to the police station, which was at the other end of town, in agony, i could hardly walk..and waited there all night just to try and get some news. not a single officer would even come and talk to me, just some 'volunteer' old bloke in reception. i mustve been there 2 hours until he told me that nobody was going to come and speak to me and that i was wasting my time sitting there. i had to go home, not having a clue where my friend was or what state she was in.


nothing ever came of it. i know there's good coppers out there (such as our own mr d-b) but theres a whole lot of bad thuggish ones as well


the feeling of helplessness is awful..watching my friend scream her lungs out while she was being pinned down in the middle of the road by big heavy blokes in armoured jackets and stuff..just for walking out of a bar where we'd been seeing a mates band play

 

[detective-boy]

all we did was walk out of a gig at the wrong time in the wrong place when something entirely unrelated to us kicked off.

Mayeb they thought you were ... what was it? ... "chav, pikey scum"?

Seriously though, how would you have reacted if the yobs giving you stress the other night had been jumped on by a couple of coppers who had been hiding out somewhere, observing and, they had gone on to treat them a bit roughly (nothing major, just maybe the sort of thing decscribed at the start of this thread)?

 

[johnnymarrsbars]

in all honesty, probably laughed.

my opinion (for what its worth) on the matter described in this thread is that the police that stormed the youth club were probably after those lads specifically. coppers dont just turn up and grab random kids in a youth club, surely. they must've been after them for something.

then again, my friend was nicked and chucked into a cell until 5am in the incident i mentioned above...and we were just coming out of the bar at the wrong time. those particular officers were really heavy handed and totally out of order but they probably did genuinely think at the time that we had something to do with the 'disturbance', surely?!

all it was by the way is some bloke getting on stage and into a bit of a scrap with the bouncer.

ah well these things happen i suppose.

 

[The Black Hand]

How is it "another discussion"? You can't expect the police to act fairly, that's not what they're there for.

If somebody's going to beat the crap out of me or lock me in a cell, I'm less than concerned whether or not they keep to the Marquis of Queensbury rules.

You may think that In Bloom but the other 55 million people in the country think that there is due process - fair treatement, a trial, a jury and so on. They don't expect to be brutalised though consciousness of this can exist in certain communities. I'm not trying to score points here, I just have a great problem with a radical position trying to impose itself on everybodies consciousness in an extremely crass manner, outside of peoples experience. In short, it is an idealistic position.

 

[The Black Hand]

Your post is perfectly reasonable. The difference between you and the Attica cunt is that you use the words "pretty sure" and "very probably" whereas Attica simply states their instant judgment as fact, without acknowledging that any additional information or explanation could even exist which would change that.

Attica is an arrogant cunt. You are perfectly reasonable. All for the sake of four little words. And I agree with you that it appears excessive in the circumstances described. (A view implicit from my first post on this thread where I took issue with someone who suggested it was a waste of time reporting it).

You are the arrogant cunt. Protecting the police at every opportunity - why don't you fuck off to another website?

Here the police brutalise a boy, obviously against the law, and you are pathetically blustering and trying to think of mitigating circumstances which could explain obvious breaches of due process, the law and PACE.

You would do that to anybody who has been a victim of police violence and aggression - U WANKER U CAN FOAD

 

[lights.out.london]

"Loving that work."

I think that's a bit sick and twisted.

I don't think I'm loving any kind of world where - when someone lamps someone unjustly - they get 10 times lamping in return. It's just not something I'd enjoy watching.

I wouldn't "love it" seeing a rowdy bloke get the shit kicked out them by police, and I wouldn't "love it" seeing rowdy copper get the shit kicked out them by the public.

Your dreams sound like nightmares to me.

I tell you what's sick and twisted: a group of bullyboy coppers assaulting two teenage boys.

The cops getting a pasting from two sets of bitter-rival footie fans is something along the lines of Lex Talionis. That I enjoy some kind of schadenfreude is just how it is (was). Toughen up.

IME cops are great in uniform, when they can hide behind their warrant cards. Not so big and fucking brave one-on-one.

A copper is a copper is a class traitor. Fuck em.

 

[In Bloom]

You may think that In Bloom but the other 55 million people in the country think that there is due process - fair treatement, a trial, a jury and so on. They don't expect to be brutalised though consciousness of this can exist in certain communities. I'm not trying to score points here, I just have a great problem with a radical position trying to impose itself on everybodies consciousness in an extremely crass manner, outside of peoples experience. In short, it is an idealistic position.

Quite honestly, I think you're completely wrong about this. Most people don't expect to be able to piss off the police without bad things happening to them, regardless of the letter of the law.

I'm not defending what the police do and I'm certainly not excusing their actions in the incident Jonezy describes at the start of the thread, but pretending to be shocked that they do these things is silly.

 

[The Black Hand]

Quite honestly, I think you're completely wrong about this. Most people don't expect to be able to piss off the police without bad things happening to them, regardless of the letter of the law.

I'm not defending what the police do and I'm certainly not excusing their actions in the incident Jonezy describes at the start of the thread, but pretending to be shocked that they do these things is silly.

Kids do silly things... I know I certainly did...

 

[detective-boy]

ah well these things happen i suppose.

I think my point is simply that there is always another side to a story. As you (rightly) point out, coppers don't go round randomly selecting people to nick - there will invariably be some reason. Sometimes, though, that reason is based on imperfect information (not least an imperfect description - it is almost impossible for the victim of a crime, especially a violent one, to provide a fully accurate verbal description and for officers to turn that into a picture in their minds) and hence the person stopped / arrested (who knows whether or not they were involved) concludes that the police are just selecting them at random or for some other improper reason. Officers need to properly explain (in some detail) why they are doing what they are doing ... but sadly they're not good at it. And, even worse, some do sometimes lie because their supervisors do not exercise sufficient dip-sampling of cases and asking difficult questions (like - "If you stopped this person on description ... which crime reference did the circulation refer to?" (one of my favourites!))

 

[detective-boy]

You are the arrogant cunt. Protecting the police at every opportunity - why don't you fuck off to another website?

No. I don't. YOU just imagine that I do because you are such a deluded, bigoted twat that you cannot bring yourself to actually read what I post. And YOU are the one who instantly jumps to conclusions without having all the facts at your disposal. That sounds like arrogance to me.

So why don't YOU fuck off to another website. Can you not hear people laughing at you? And can you not see them pointing? You are a pathetic joke. Oh, and a cunt.

* Waves *

 

[detective-boy]

Kids do silly things... I know I certainly did...

You sure you got the tense right there, cunt?