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I will still be voting for Ken

If I ever meet any of you guys who are planning to vote for Boris (scott forest, dtb and Keyboard Jockey, from this thread), please tell me your username, so that I know never to talk to you. You're willing to let Boris Johnson become mayor - to me this makes you an utterly, utterly, vile human being. He would be so bad that he would damage the quality of life for everyone in the city - and you're happy with that? Absolute bastards.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Margins are so small now for owner operators that £3k does make the difference between profit and loss. Where are under pressure owner operators going to find the money for new vehilces? I don't see any form of grant scheme just more taxation.
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http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/freight/1286.aspx


The Euston road is taking a whole load of traffic that would have in more sensible times have travelled through the city..
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Sorry, you can't have it both ways. The CC removed vehicles from the roads in total, so there's less pollution as a result.

I see that you're chosing to ignore all the other parts of London that have poor air quality. Or perhaps you have a theory on how Ken is to blame for Lambeth's pollution too? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7012351.stm
 
scifisam said:
If I ever meet any of you guys who are planning to vote for Boris (scott forest, dtb and Keyboard Jockey, from this thread), please tell me your username, so that I know never to talk to you. You're willing to let Boris Johnson become mayor - to me this makes you an utterly, utterly, vile human being. He would be so bad that he would damage the quality of life for everyone in the city - and you're happy with that? Absolute bastards.
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I dont WANT Johnson I just want rid of Livingslime. A terrible state of affairs that I have to consider voting tory or letting a tory in for the first time in my life because the alternative is more Livingslime arrogance and corruption.

A horrible choice to have to make. Voting for shite to get rid of shite.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
I dont WANT Johnson I just want rid of Livingslime. A terrible state of affairs that I have to consider voting tory or letting a tory in for the first time in my life because the alternative is more Livingslime arrogance and corruption.

A horrible choice to have to make. Voting for shite to get rid of shite.
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Boris would definitely be arrogant and corrupt, though - it's not as though you'd get rid of that (though I don't personally believe Ken's corrupt, he definitely is arrogant. Politicians are rarely humble types.
 
citydreams said:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/businessandpartners/freight/1286.aspx




Sorry, you can't have it both ways. The CC removed vehicles from the roads in total, so there's less pollution as a result.

I see that you're chosing to ignore all the other parts of London that have poor air quality. Or perhaps you have a theory on how Ken is to blame for Lambeth's pollution too? http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/7012351.stm
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South Circular is taking more traffic as well cos of the CC. I can see validity in the CC its just the extra taxes in the form of penalty charges and the level of the c charge itself needs reform.

IMO I'd like to see a £5 CC, with £10 fines. This I believe is proportional and would deter the casual central london car user but wouldn't hit those who need to use vehicles in London.

I'd also like to see grants for making vehicles Euro5 compliant and full grants for electric vehicles. What happened to the CC money and the money from the extra taxes / penalties on the CC zone? That money could be used to fund cleaner vehicles.
 
scifisam said:
Boris would definitely be arrogant and corrupt, though - it's not as though you'd get rid of that (though I don't personally believe Ken's corrupt, he definitely is arrogant. Politicians are rarely humble types.
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Boris would probably end up as a one term mayor anyway. Its a price that is worth paying to be rid of Livingslime.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
South Circular is taking more traffic as well cos of the CC.
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Tosh. You really have no idea about traffic in London. Why should they go out of their way to drive around the south circ, when they can still drive through the free passage route.

Besides which, pollution has been terrible in Lambeth for years and years. Care to address the main point? Air quality in London is appaling. What would you want to have done about it?
 
KeyboardJockey said:
I dont WANT Johnson I just want rid of Livingslime. A terrible state of affairs that I have to consider voting tory or letting a tory in for the first time in my life because the alternative is more Livingslime arrogance and corruption.

A horrible choice to have to make. Voting for shite to get rid of shite.
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Then vote paddick, with jonson or ken as your 2nd vote, depending on who you hate less.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
I'd also like to see grants for making vehicles Euro5 compliant and full grants for electric vehicles.
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This. Using the funds raised by enforcing the emissions zone.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
What happened to the CC money and the money from the extra taxes / penalties on the CC zone? That money could be used to fund cleaner vehicles.
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It did. Cleaner buses.
 
citydreams said:
Tosh. You really have no idea about traffic in London. Why should they go out of their way to drive around the south circ, when they can still drive through the free passage route.
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Sorry wrong. People are making much more use of the Nth and Sth Circ becuase of the CC.
citydreams said:
Besides which, pollution has been terrible in Lambeth for years and years. Care to address the main point? Air quality in London is appaling. What would you want to have done about it?
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1. Make the CC fairer
2. If we have to have this fake LEZ another excuse for a tax bollocks then at least have grants for the adaption.
3. Electric vehicle grants for those who do multi drop deliveries in London.
4. Buses to be converted to biodiesel.

BTW air quality is much better since the railways were electrified. Thats the BIG jump in London Air quality.
 
citydreams said:
Tosh. You really have no idea about traffic in London. Why should they go out of their way to drive around the south circ, when they can still drive through the free passage route.
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At a guess because it is hard to follow. There have been several cases on the RAC forums of folks getting penalty charges after driving into the zone by accident.
 
tbf, phasing out the routemaster should have helped a lot. Those fuckers were really smoky.
 
bluestreak said:
Boris will be a fucking nightmare. London under him will be a vile place for all of us. A place of traffic jams, piss poor public transport, and absolutely no frills. Dull and grey and smelly and designed solely for people who don't live in London.
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so exactly the same as now then...
 
Oswaldtwistle said:
At a guess because it is hard to follow. There have been several cases on the RAC forums of folks getting penalty charges after driving into the zone by accident.
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Yup. And the CC admin scum refuse to admit when there have been genuine mistakes.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
so exactly the same as now then...
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I bet you didn't live in London in the 60's and 70's, when it really was fucking grim.
All the buildings were covered in black soot, the buses were filthy and full of smokers, the tubes were in a disgusting mess. :London does have it downsides but it's a beautiful city, and we don't have it that bad compared to some places.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Sorry wrong. People are making much more use of the Nth and Sth Circ becuase of the CC.
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Are they?
I only know far more people are using public transport in the central area since the CC.

You could almost think the reasons need exploring in more detail.
 
KeyboardJockey said:
Sorry wrong. People are making much more use of the Nth and Sth Circ becuase of the CC.
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Utter nonsense, as anyone who has access to count data can tell you.


BTW air quality is much better since the railways were electrified. Thats the BIG jump in London Air quality.
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Still not good enough. It's ILLEGAL to have air quality at the levels they are.
 
citydreams said:
Utter nonsense, as anyone who has access to count data can tell you.
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Rubbish. I used to go from East London to Richmond via Central London and now I go via North and if necessary Sth Circ.

I also had to travel to Surrey recently (had to take motor as stuff to carry) and had to sit in humongous amounts of traffic on the South Circ in an effort to avoid CC zone. Previously I would have gone Nth London - Kings Cross Farringdon St, Embankment, Earls Ct, then A4 to Richmond then from Richmond to Kingston and then A3. Instead I spend an extra 2hrs burning fuel in traffic becuase of the CC zone. So much for CC zone reducing congestion and pollution.

citydreams said:
Still not good enough. It's ILLEGAL to have air quality at the levels they are.
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Under what ordinances is it illegal - not having a go just interested.
 
GarfieldLeChat said:
but utterly landlocked at tower elephant and battersea...
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Would Euston road/westway/m41/holland road/a4 be any better? Again you'd have to be careful not to enter the zone in a couple of spots.


(getting back on topic)

AFAIK Bo-Jo supports both the LEZ and the CC, so it looks like both are here to stay.
 
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