I very very rarely agree with 'Mad' Melanie Phillips......

[butchersapron]

It would probably need to be combined with a proper democratic constitution to be effective. There's nothing slippery-slope about it. The principles behind it would be crystal clear.

Indeed they would - fuck the electorate - we decide for you who you can vote for

 

[ViolentPanda]

But as i said, it won't. It won't effect them at all.

Aside from the fact that this top-down manouvering would do precisely nothing to deal with the growth of the BNP, in fact it would be potentially counter-productive, in that it would push people already alienated from most politics further into the arms of the BNP, the only people (currently) telling them that the politicians don't give two shits for them or their needs, and they can point to the trickery employed to keep them out of the election process as an example. It would lead to a hardening and expansion of BNP support IMO. A pretty poor return for starting down that dangerous slippery slope.

Indeed. The only effective method that might and/or could counter the growth of the BNP (and I'm not just talking about growth among those who're traditionally perceived to be prone to embracing the appeal of fascism, i.e. "the working class") is grass roots attention to local factors that aggravate social cohesion, and the exposure of BNP policy for what it is through public dissection and discussion, not (as you say) "top-down" manipulation that merely "martyrs" the BNP and their fellow-travellers.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Indeed they would - fuck the electorate - we decide for you who you can vote for

Nope. We, the people, have decided when formulating our constitution that equal treatment regardless of ethnic origin is a sine non qua of public life.

 

[butchersapron]

Nope. We, the people, have decided when formulating our constitution that equal treatment regardless of ethnic origin is a sine non qua of public life.

You can say it anyway you like, that's not how it will be taken and that's not how it will be used.

And what's more it's a de facto pro staus quo position that will only help to further narrow the boundaries of legitmate public political debate and policy formation to those areas that the powers that be consider to be safe for them. It would be used as an anti-extreme politics (or anti-oppostional politics) measure dressed up in anti-racist clothing.

Not going to happen though.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Nope. We, the people, have decided when formulating our constitution that equal treatment regardless of ethnic origin is a sine non qua of public life.

Which presupposes that "we, the people" are permitted to participate meaningfully in the creation of any such constitution, surely?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Which presupposes that "we, the people" are permitted to participate meaningfully in the creation of any such constitution, surely?

Yes, but that is the idea at least behind a constitution. All constitutions are fudges between different interests, reflecting the divisions in a society. If you look at the Spanish constitution as an example, there was a wide-ranging debate, and some fairly unpalatable concessions made to the right (not least the 'indivisibility of the state' – I forget the precise wording). But concessions were also made to the left, including the right to abortion and the scrapping for ever of the death penalty.

In a debate about a constitution, it is up to people to engage and attempt to make a difference.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Not going to happen though.

I lack your ability to know the future.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

“sine non qua… de facto pro staus quo”

Bluddy latin - its like being back in law school ere

 

[littlebabyjesus]

“sine non qua… de facto pro staus quo”

Bluddy latin - its like being back in law school ere

Carpet diem, Rodney. Carpet diem.

 

[Meltingpot]

Carpet diem, Rodney. Carpet diem.

I thought what Lee Barnes showed was how far the BNP has come since 1993 when Richard Edmonds appeared on the same programme and tried to actually answer the questions, albeit in a churlish manner that endeared him to nobody. Barnes realised his main goal was to get the BNP's message out, so he repeated the mantra that the BNP was about "space not race" and largely ignored the questions put to him

One thing he tried to do and failed was to get Melanie Phillips to say to which of Britain and Israel her primary loyalty was. All she had to say was "Britain of course" but she conspicuously declined to do so.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

No pretense of balance on the moral maze is there? On the panel this week - a rightwing ex-tory MP, a rightwing Daily Mail columnist, a rightwing catholic windbag and an ex-RCP libertarian type. If somebody had petrol bombed that studio at the start of the recording pleasure of life on earth would have been increased by at least 6%. Just exercising my Freedom of Speech here, I'm sure they'd understand.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

One thing he tried to do and failed was to get Melanie Phillips to say to which of Britain and Israel her primary loyalty was. All she had to say was "Britain of course" but she conspicuously declined to do so.

I have no interest in defending Melanie Phillips, and I haven't heard the programme, but that's a question I wouldn't answer either. It sounds suspiciously like Tebbit's cricket test. Not a question I could answer because I reject the premise of the question.

 

[Bakunin]

I have no interest in defending Melanie Phillips, and I haven't heard the programme, but that's a question I wouldn't answer either. It sounds suspiciously like Tebbit's cricket test. Not a question I could answer because I reject the premise of the question.

I reject anything to do with Norman Tebbitt on general principle, especially his frankly disturbing level of interest in what he constantly refers to as 'buggery.'

I have to hit the mute button when he starts blathering on about it as I otherwise end up with a clear mental image of him and Richard Littlejohn discovering their mutual obsession and getting down to it in a sweaty man-on-man orgy in some darkened sauna somewhere.

 

[frogwoman]

asking people to choose between England and Israel is fucked. I am no fan of the zionist state but it's the old "dual loyalties" crap again that caused such trouble in history re persecution of the Jews and Catholics -
"are you loyal to the King or the Pope"
"erm..."
"ITS THE POPE ISNT IT??? ISNT IT?"
"Well..."
"What do you think of the agents and minions of Popery trying to assassinate the King and destroy PROTESTANT BRITAIN?"
"Umm, well, I don't..."
"OFF TO THE GALLOWS WITH YOU!"
... what a load of shit. Jesus.

If that is the only "difference" between a spokesman of the BNP and someone who appears every fucking week on a "respected" panel show on Radio fucking 4 then we really are in trouble.

 

[frogwoman]

I reject anything to do with Norman Tebbitt on general principle, especially his frankly disturbing level of interest in what he constantly refers to as 'buggery.'

I have to hit the mute button when he starts blathering on about it as I otherwise end up with a clear mental image of him and Richard Littlejohn discovering their mutual obsession and getting down to it in a sweaty man-on-man orgy in some darkened sauna somewhere.

you've poisoned my mind. the worst thing is that i can imagine just how that conversation would start and where it would end.

 

[Bakunin]

you've poisoned my mind. the worst thing is that i can imagine just how that conversation would start and where it would end.

*Adopts voice of Eric Cartman*

'I can't help it! Those crackpot right wingers have warped my fragile little mind.'

 

[cantsin]

You don't actually have to read Taki. I read Dear Mary every week - essential advice for a decent life.

jeff bernard was the only reason to read the speccy - Taki's an utter tosser, always has been , Phillips is just an idiot -

 

[brasicritique]

this is all a joke imo the author of Londonistan owtf it was called argues with a bnp counillor oh the joys of hypocrasy same shit different name

 

[butchersapron]

asking people to choose between England and Israel is fucked. I am no fan of the zionist state but it's the old "dual loyalties" crap again that caused such trouble in history re persecution of the Jews and Catholics -
<snip>

Worked though, sent her off one that made her look as bad and agressive as him. Worse actually because of her hideous voice.

 

[butchersapron]

No pretense of balance on the moral maze is there? On the panel this week - a rightwing ex-tory MP, a rightwing Daily Mail columnist, a rightwing catholic windbag and an ex-RCP libertarian type. If somebody had petrol bombed that studio at the start of the recording pleasure of life on earth would have been increased by at least 6%. Just exercising my Freedom of Speech here, I'm sure they'd understand.

Nothing wrong with Mr Malik.

 

[frogwoman]

Worked though, sent her off one that made her look as bad and agressive as him. Worse actually because of her hideous voice.

Indeed. Mind you that's coz she is as bad and aggressive as him tbh - two sides of the same coin

 

[Delroy Booth]

Just had a little search for a Melanie Phillips thread, if there's a newer one with more replies (or if you think we should start one?) that's worth bumping then I apologise, but she's shat this out onto her blog today and it's got one of the best lines I've ever read in my entire life

http://melaniephillips.com/the-crisis-of-conservatism-on-both-sides-of-the-pond

Blair saw his opportunity – but having concluded about his own party that its left-wing positions had made it unelectable, he took a leaf out his friend Bill Clinton’s book and triangulated his message. While remaining committed under the radar to extreme, indeed revolutionary left-wing positions – the erosion of sovereignty by closer union with the EU, mass third world immigration, multiculturalism, gay rights -- he sent out the (misleading) message that he was instinctively on the side of Middle Britain and would put right what worried them most.

 

[Sirena]

I will never, NEVER accept that Melanie Phillips is anything other than a nasty piece of shit.

 

[elbows]

Finally figured out who she reminds me of. Luckily she doesnt have a Death Star.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Just had a little search for a Melanie Phillips thread, if there's a newer one with more replies (or if you think we should start one?) that's worth bumping then I apologise, but she's shat this out onto her blog today and it's got one of the best lines I've ever read in my entire life

http://melaniephillips.com/the-crisis-of-conservatism-on-both-sides-of-the-pond

TBF, that "Londonistan" piece of shite she authored is chock-a-fucking-block with such spectacular but unsubstantiable contentions. She pushes this shit out because she knows that some berks will buy it. She's got a readymade audience for her particular brand of right-contrarianism - the sort of people who wanted David Davies to lead the Conservative Party.

 

[Bernie Gunther]

On what fucking planet does this statement about Tony Blair make sense?

While remaining committed under the radar to extreme, indeed revolutionary left-wing positions – the erosion of sovereignty by closer union with the EU, mass third world immigration, multiculturalism, gay rights ....

 

[frogwoman]

Just had a little search for a Melanie Phillips thread, if there's a newer one with more replies (or if you think we should start one?) that's worth bumping then I apologise, but she's shat this out onto her blog today and it's got one of the best lines I've ever read in my entire life

http://melaniephillips.com/the-crisis-of-conservatism-on-both-sides-of-the-pond

 

[maomao]

On what fucking planet does this statement about Tony Blair make sense?

Daily Mail planet. They actually believe he's a lefty. I feel a bit sorry for the old-fashioned right sometimes, they don't understand that all politics has been co-opted by neoliberal capitalism. They're as lost as the left but most of them haven't quite realised it yet. The Daily Mail was one of our allowed sites at work for a long time and I often ended up feeling that I had a lot more in common with that unspeakable prick Peter Hitchens than I ever could with a Labour politician. Never went as far as agreeing with mad Mel though.

 

[Knotted]

On what fucking planet does this statement about Tony Blair make sense?

One that's turned upside down.

 

[Belushi]

FFS for a second I thought that twat zachor was back