"I ignore the strange resemblance... to urban75"
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Badger Kitten
oof
Lamb of God, who takest upon Himself the sins of the world...
The original 'scapegoat' was a goat that was sacrificed by letting it run off into the desert, carrying upon it the sins of the tribe. 'Lambs' and 'kids' were for a while interchangeable in Aramaic. Ergo Jesus = scapegoat, ergo wiffle woffle horned Jungian symbol, ergo devil, blah blah. Therefore all Christians = devil worshippers, therefore born-again Bush = AntiChrist, yak yak 9/11 New World Order zionist lizards, etcetera, Bildeburg, Bohemian Grove, numerology, drones, owls, blah, blah.
Life would be so much easier if I was a conspiracy theorist. I could make up all kinds of stuff, and just bang on with random portentous questions, esoteric knowledge gulped down unquestioningly without investigation being the answer to anything. It's like a fundementalist religion. Or a comfort blanket.
The original 'scapegoat' was a goat that was sacrificed by letting it run off into the desert, carrying upon it the sins of the tribe. 'Lambs' and 'kids' were for a while interchangeable in Aramaic. Ergo Jesus = scapegoat, ergo wiffle woffle horned Jungian symbol, ergo devil, blah blah. Therefore all Christians = devil worshippers, therefore born-again Bush = AntiChrist, yak yak 9/11 New World Order zionist lizards, etcetera, Bildeburg, Bohemian Grove, numerology, drones, owls, blah, blah.
Life would be so much easier if I was a conspiracy theorist. I could make up all kinds of stuff, and just bang on with random portentous questions, esoteric knowledge gulped down unquestioningly without investigation being the answer to anything. It's like a fundementalist religion. Or a comfort blanket.
Badger Kitten
oof
This is a highly random thread. I blame the wine.
nah it's just sets of symbols and associations, and it makes more sense to just pretend for the sake of argument that something were true, or that some symbolic association has insight, and imagine it fully, and then see where it gets you.
You haven't really thought critically about a subject until you've properly imagined things from the people you don't agree with's point of view, which to some extent means you need to get into their headstate.
You haven't really thought critically about a subject until you've properly imagined things from the people you don't agree with's point of view, which to some extent means you need to get into their headstate.
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
Badger Kitten said:
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It's like everyone on this thread read some Dan Brown and believed every word written.
Badger Kitten
oof
That is my problem with them ( conspiracy theorists) , there is no critical thinking.
I can perfectly well entertain the idea that there are symbols and portents everywhere and that wicked conspiracies and power-seeking strategies exist. I did a year-long course in transpersonal psychology FFS, and paid for the privilege, and am no stranger to writing pretentious shite about symbols and the unconscious ego and the spititual realm. What is so irritating is that there is no attempt at analysis or even Occams razor with the conspiranoids. There is a deliberate intent to find portents and hidden symbols everywhere and to make everything fit a particular world view. It's like being a fundementalist Christian or Muslim and seeing all non-Christians/non-Muslims as evil, or a racist seeing everyone ''native'' and brown as inferior: basic, loathesome binary polarisation. Demonisation of the Other. Fundementalist lazy elitist thinking. That is how violent conflict starts, ( I'm right, you're wrong) but any argument should stand up to critical analysis, and conspiracy theories just don't , because they are held as an emotional article of faith, not investiaged as a rational & considered understanding.
(And I have seen how my fury at the conspracy theorists furious attacks on me quickly degenerated into a vicious war or words and threats, which I am appalled by, and wish had never happened. I can see how emotive all this is).
I have entertained the idea that the US Govt blew up the Twin towers, or let it happen, as the outcome fitted their own agenda, and was certainly exploited for said agenda, as I have with July 7th rush to ID cards and draconian anti-civil liberites legislation. But the theory that pissed off fundementalist jihadist Islamists did it is much much more compelling than the idea that it was orchestrated as some grand design to get us all into V for Vendetta -land. However unpleasant it is to take on board, and whatever that means for our sense of safety and comprehension of security, it was angry young men filled with a toxic idealogy that dunnit.
Ditto Bohemian Grove - yes, they might be worshipping a Satanic owl, but the evidence that is an old fart frat-boy networking summer camp is much more compelling.
And so on and so on. I like symbology, Jung, ancient myths and religions, theology and so on. I have spent time and money studying them. One thing it has taught me is that you can make anything mean anything, depending on who is marking the essay and what they want to hear. But to try to construct a whole personal belief system on such shakey ground, that cannot be questioned, is just barmy.People get an emotional security from having all the answers and being seekers and initiates of some privileged truth. But recognise that as a social need, not an absolute truth.
Rant over. Bit pissed. Sorry.
I can perfectly well entertain the idea that there are symbols and portents everywhere and that wicked conspiracies and power-seeking strategies exist. I did a year-long course in transpersonal psychology FFS, and paid for the privilege, and am no stranger to writing pretentious shite about symbols and the unconscious ego and the spititual realm. What is so irritating is that there is no attempt at analysis or even Occams razor with the conspiranoids. There is a deliberate intent to find portents and hidden symbols everywhere and to make everything fit a particular world view. It's like being a fundementalist Christian or Muslim and seeing all non-Christians/non-Muslims as evil, or a racist seeing everyone ''native'' and brown as inferior: basic, loathesome binary polarisation. Demonisation of the Other. Fundementalist lazy elitist thinking. That is how violent conflict starts, ( I'm right, you're wrong) but any argument should stand up to critical analysis, and conspiracy theories just don't , because they are held as an emotional article of faith, not investiaged as a rational & considered understanding.
(And I have seen how my fury at the conspracy theorists furious attacks on me quickly degenerated into a vicious war or words and threats, which I am appalled by, and wish had never happened. I can see how emotive all this is).
I have entertained the idea that the US Govt blew up the Twin towers, or let it happen, as the outcome fitted their own agenda, and was certainly exploited for said agenda, as I have with July 7th rush to ID cards and draconian anti-civil liberites legislation. But the theory that pissed off fundementalist jihadist Islamists did it is much much more compelling than the idea that it was orchestrated as some grand design to get us all into V for Vendetta -land. However unpleasant it is to take on board, and whatever that means for our sense of safety and comprehension of security, it was angry young men filled with a toxic idealogy that dunnit.
Ditto Bohemian Grove - yes, they might be worshipping a Satanic owl, but the evidence that is an old fart frat-boy networking summer camp is much more compelling.
And so on and so on. I like symbology, Jung, ancient myths and religions, theology and so on. I have spent time and money studying them. One thing it has taught me is that you can make anything mean anything, depending on who is marking the essay and what they want to hear. But to try to construct a whole personal belief system on such shakey ground, that cannot be questioned, is just barmy.People get an emotional security from having all the answers and being seekers and initiates of some privileged truth. But recognise that as a social need, not an absolute truth.
Rant over. Bit pissed. Sorry.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Badger Kitten said:
So, not a Dan Brown fan then?
For some reason I always liked the bit in through the looking glass where the white queen says to Alice something like.
"when I was a little girl we used to have to believe at least six impossible things before breakfast - just for the practice you know.. "
#
Personally, I find lots of things strange though. And my bias is much more towards conspiranoia, though in a slightly unusual way. Like why were both the buses bombed heading to hackney Wick. Why Hackney Wick.. And why 7/7, - were the bombers into the quabbalah?
But I think the fury of the argument is more about people wanting to hold on to the coherence of their worldviews, because we need that for our sanity, and our belief in our sanity.
All the same, though, I don't see how it's possible to believe there's no spiritual dimension to what's going on on this planet unless you also hold the view that there's a vast worldwide conspiracy of lunatics trying to fool the sane majority into thinking that there's something strange going on.
"when I was a little girl we used to have to believe at least six impossible things before breakfast - just for the practice you know.. "
#
Personally, I find lots of things strange though. And my bias is much more towards conspiranoia, though in a slightly unusual way. Like why were both the buses bombed heading to hackney Wick. Why Hackney Wick.. And why 7/7, - were the bombers into the quabbalah?
But I think the fury of the argument is more about people wanting to hold on to the coherence of their worldviews, because we need that for our sanity, and our belief in our sanity.
All the same, though, I don't see how it's possible to believe there's no spiritual dimension to what's going on on this planet unless you also hold the view that there's a vast worldwide conspiracy of lunatics trying to fool the sane majority into thinking that there's something strange going on.
Badger Kitten
oof
As a silly novel read by the pool on holiday? Yes, I will read any old shit, even Jilly CooperKid_Eternity said:
Otherwise, nah. You?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Badger Kitten said:
Only read DVC and just started Angels & Demons so not really a "fan" but do enjoy the books in a "this is really crap, badly written with oooh aint that cool/intrigueing bits" kinda way.
Badger Kitten
oof
ZWord said:
Well, yes, there can be some kind of esoteric and spiritual dimension to people's belief systems, but the conspracist's insistence on everything fitting neatly into prison-planet-has-all - the-answers-boxes is just silly.
7/7 as a choice of date BTW? Three main theories...
1. Snappy branding (hey, double lucky seven not so
'' lucky'' for some!)
2. Or the anniversary of the Bradford riots of 7/7/2001( the first time young Asian men ran ointo the streets and fought back with home made firebombs - if I was Khan , that might be very personally significant, as it was for many Pakistani young men of the area.
3. Or to mark the start of the trial of Finsbury Park mosque preacher, whom 3 of the 4 bombers knew - Abu Hamza al Masri. The IRA used to plan spectaculars on key trial dates or anniversaries - which is why you want to keep an eye out on the ongoing Old Bailey Crevice trial
( the young men accused of planning a fertiliser vehicle bomb in London).
I now think 3, but what does it matter?
Badger Kitten
oof
anyway, this thread was meant to be about the Tories, wasn't it?
Bottle of rose and I am all over the damn shop.
Bottle of rose and I am all over the damn shop.
Badger Kitten
oof
They also used to... what did terrorists used to do? Oh yes, that was it. They would admit responsibility! Because what is the use of being a terrorist otherwise. What else? Oh yes they had some real demands and we all knew what they were. These were staple qualities for terrorists, always were. But strangely, after the cold war ended we didn't get to enjoy new found security on the planet, terrorism seamlessly took over as the 'big fear'. And we don't get claims of responsibility (not ones that hold up, anyway).Badger Kitten said:
But we have this global terror network run by ex-CIA man 'Tim Osmond' and of course, he's never found. For why would the Shepherd need to catch the Sheepdog?
But no-one likes to think they could be tricked. Far easier to think that those ruling us are 'boring old farts' who couldn't pull the wool over our eyes, oh no, who are incompetent. Bohemian Grove? World leaders all gather together in secret? Nothing to worry about there, just a summer camp!
Because, then we don't feel superior any more, it's worrying, and the funny thing is whenever this all crops up it's the conspiracy theorists who are attacked for needing to 'feel superior'...
editor
hiraethified
Conspiracy theories certainly fucked up my thread and make no mistake.Jazzz said:
<adjusts tin foil hat>
Hold on. Maybe it was intentional? Maybe you're just trying to draw heat off the Tory party's urban get-down-with-da-inner-city-yoot website in a classic disruption/disinfo pincer movement?
</adjusts tin foil hat>
Don't you think there's something just a little bit odd with their phoenix worship and hand signals? When I saw that 'phoenix' was in the title I thought... this is something dodgy. No surprise it turned out to be the Tory party.
If George Bush walked around with a pentagram tattoo would you think that was strange? He'll probably break it out soon.
If George Bush walked around with a pentagram tattoo would you think that was strange? He'll probably break it out soon.
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
too right... harry potter fans, typicalJazzz said:
miss minnie
Well-Known Member
and in texas it has another meaning...
Omg, what a derailment of a decent thread, imo, we should not underestimate the tories, they are re-inventing themselves in a myriad of ways. the design of that site would not look out of place on a 'cutting edge website' such as urban and is so far from the 1990 tories as one can imagine to be.
be afraid, be very afraid!
be afraid, be very afraid!
JHE
.
Fortunately, Urban75 does not look like that. (The usenet person quoted by Editor is mistaken.) But the design (esp. the chosen font) does look like something that might be used by some teenage anarchist site.treelover said:
You may be right that the Tories are becoming a problem again, but I don't believe that daft site is anything to worry about.
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