I don't like George Galloway but ...
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Red Jezza said:
Here's a link. Tony Benn quoted by BBC. Scroll down.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3552640.stm
Benn and Galloway have long been political associates. Galloway was part of Benn's campaign team in his bid for LP leadership in the early 80s and organised an election rally for him. Benn was one of those who submitted statements defending Galloway to the LP kangaroo court that expelled Galloway from LP. They frequently share platforms for the StWC.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
fairy snuff. i'll try and find corroboration by mining through my personal TB archives (BBc better source than most, but not 100%0 - prolly right tho' .Groucho said:
I did say that The Old Man had come up with some crap in his time...
Red Jezza said:fairy snuff. i'll try and find corroboration by mining through my personal TB archives (BBc better source than most, but not 100%0 - prolly right tho' .
I did say that The Old Man had come up with some crap in his time...
You might find quite a bit. See my edit above.
rebel warrior
Soca Warrior
This is where I got the quotes from:
http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,0_0713998075,00.html
and add this one:
‘His voice is now one of the most important in British politics. He has exposed, for all to see, the rotten core of today’s Labour Party’
Ken Loach
http://www.penguin.co.uk/nf/Book/BookDisplay/0,,0_0713998075,00.html
and add this one:
‘His voice is now one of the most important in British politics. He has exposed, for all to see, the rotten core of today’s Labour Party’
Ken Loach
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
edit; @ Groucho...
I KNOW all that! and it was the MID - 80s, the one TB got stuffed in. Their's was/is a relationship of political convenience - galloway was never a conventional Bennite, and IIRC TB admired his politics but not the man (my namesake Corbyn
has no time for him at all)
going back to your OP - do you REALLY think GG deserves to rank alongside Pankhurst, maclean, scargill, Benn? I don't. Benn went thru' far, far more - and none of it was (semi-)self-inflicted. As for pankhurst, no way, and a dotty TB quote won't change that
I KNOW all that! and it was the MID - 80s, the one TB got stuffed in. Their's was/is a relationship of political convenience - galloway was never a conventional Bennite, and IIRC TB admired his politics but not the man (my namesake Corbyn
has no time for him at all)going back to your OP - do you REALLY think GG deserves to rank alongside Pankhurst, maclean, scargill, Benn? I don't. Benn went thru' far, far more - and none of it was (semi-)self-inflicted. As for pankhurst, no way, and a dotty TB quote won't change that
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
I love his fims, but he should stick to his art. The rotten core in the LP was bloody gapingly obvious way before this warrebel warrior said:
GG has some virtues, and is an excellent orator. i'd still not trust him an inch - he is personally too flawed, was an average MP, and he was nowhere before all this happened
Red Jezza said:edit; @ Groucho...
I KNOW all that! and it was the MID - 80s, the one TB got stuffed in. Their's was/is a relationship of political convenience - galloway was never a conventional Bennite, and IIRC TB admired his politics but not the man (my namesake Corbyn
going back to your OP - do you REALLY think GG deserves to rank alongside Pankhurst, maclean, scargill, Benn? I don't. Benn went thru' far, far more - and none of it was (semi-)self-inflicted. As for pankhurst, no way, and a dotty TB quote won't change that
McLean went through far far more...imprisoned and all that. Benn, (Sylvia) Pankhurst, McLean all labelled 'mad'. My point was that the establishment are attacking Galloway for the same reasons. In all cases sections of the left joined in. But just to ratch it up a notch I do believe that Galloway is the greatest major political figure around in the UK today.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
fuck a duck! HOW did you work that out???Groucho said:
edit; either on 'greatest' or 'major'??
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
The thing is, the original intention was for the SWP to use him, but it appears that the lower down members didn't quite grasp the new perspective and have fallen head over heels for real....
butchersapron said:
Spot on there Butchers.
For once I have to agree (almost) with Groucho's last post. He is right about the reasons Galloway is being attacked. However, to support someone against the state, media etc is one thing, depending on what he has done. To say: "I do believe that Galloway is the greatest major political figure around in the UK today," is complete bollocks.
I've said it before but it is worth repeating: My enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
oh, I know you'll work with anybody....Groucho said:
...who you can control!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
don't deny any of that, but all my dealings with swappies as a party have revealed to me more than a tad of control freakery in the organisation - it seems inherent in it.
now c'mon - GG;
now c'mon - GG;
discuss. justify. etc
Red Jezza said:fuck a duck! HOW did you work that out???
edit; either on 'greatest' or 'major'??
I said greatest major political figure because there may be some relatively minor figures I admire more than Galloway. Lindsey German, Alex Callinicos...
But who else, in the World of politics is both a household name and a leading figure on the left? And do any of these compare right now to the contribution that Galloway is making?
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
HUH???? when on earth did I say that?flimsier said:
AT MOST, I said - way back - they were both dodgy fuckers to get into bed with.
I would never say that - because I believe it is only likely to happen the other way round
edit; I'm amazed if I say that. i assume the reverse is possible due to tighter swappie organisation, singlemindedness, caucusing etc
Galloway is probably one of them, given his Senate appearance, the establishment's attempts to smear him, and his defeat of Oona King. But I guess you'd have to qualify it by saying 'on the left' or something similar.
Then you might have to also qualify it by saying 'in the uk' (edit: D'oh!, you did!) and maybe more by 'in parliament'.
I think Cindy Sheehan is more significant to the left at the moment.
There's also no denying Galloway is at least a 'major political figure' though. Hence the threads on here, articles and so on. It doesn't mean you have to like him to admit that.
Who would you say is more significant and is around today RJ (on the 'left')?
Then you might have to also qualify it by saying 'in the uk' (edit: D'oh!, you did!) and maybe more by 'in parliament'.
I think Cindy Sheehan is more significant to the left at the moment.
There's also no denying Galloway is at least a 'major political figure' though. Hence the threads on here, articles and so on. It doesn't mean you have to like him to admit that.
Who would you say is more significant and is around today RJ (on the 'left')?
Red Jezza said:HUH???? when on earth did I say that?
AT MOST, I said - way back - they were both dodgy fuckers to get into bed with.
I would never say that - because I believe it is only likely to happen the other way round
edit; I'm amazed if I say that. i assume the reverse is possible due to tighter swappie organisation, singlemindedness, caucusing etc
Right. On that I must have got you wrong and I retract.
I am utterly convinced of the other time I referred to a previous position of yours in this thread, however - not that it's important now!
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
gimme time to think about it. i'd say Old Man Benn is STILL more important, off the cuff, and yes, probably sheehan. Galloway has a high profile, sure - which is what you'd expect of a publicity-freak with an unfortunate talent for getting into scrapes. not so sure if he amounts to more than that tho'....
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
err...groucho didn't!
I'd say TB is still hugely influential on left opinion, but is now seen by the state as less of a threat. as to the others - callinicos, Rees, galloway too - 'greatness' is simply not a concept which can sit on their shoulders. 'least irrelevant' maybe, but that's different
I'd say TB is still hugely influential on left opinion, but is now seen by the state as less of a threat. as to the others - callinicos, Rees, galloway too - 'greatness' is simply not a concept which can sit on their shoulders. 'least irrelevant' maybe, but that's different
Red Jezza said:
Tony Benn is the grand old man of the left. But more important than Galloway right now? In British history, sure, but right now? He is the President of the StWC and still speaks out at meetings. But does he represent any movement or organisation beyond the StWC? He continually advocates membership of the LP and voting for the LP. Yet his socialist principles have no place in Blair's New Labour. He is a man deserving of great respect, but he is not the leading figure he once was. As a leader of the Labour Left he leads very little of consequence. His principle political home today is the StWC which he describes as the most important movement/organisation of his life.
He is sadly unwell and has had to cut down his public appearances. One of the very few he is making is in support of the Socialist Worker appeal.
butchersapron said:
You assign to the SWP intentions based on your own prejudices then are surprised when we blatantly dissabuse you of them. We work with people on issues we can gain agreement on on a progressive agenda. Usually this means compromise by both parties. We do this because a broad movement can make headway and splendid 'principled' hard-line isolation gets no-where. You know we even work with the TUC on some issues...
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
welll...yesss. he is one MP, in a fledgling party of ...one MP.flimsier said:
he is great at whipping up a publicity storm focussed on himself, and he's prolly the most prominent backbencher since (say) Tam dalyell. beyond that
1) STWC - not much left here anyway, IMHO, and the millions who DID march didn't do so cos GG said they should - grass roots opinion beyond RESPECT, IMHO, thought he was a bit of a doofus. They marched becuase they were intelligent people who could see that this is wrong.
The millions of all those disaffected and left behind by New Labour's march rightwards aren't flocking to his banner. what he's got going for him is (given I see a very short life for RESPECT)...
a platform of Senate hearings to clear his name/argue his case/sell his book/etc
he's become publically identified as one of the 'faces' of a near ex-movement
..and a lot of noise...
....and that's it. Nowt behind the noise.
For all I'd celebrate his untimely demise, Tony Blair is a 'major' political figure, may he burn in hell.
GG isn't, beyond left-socialist anorak circles.
butchersapron
Bring back hanging
You've not managed to 'blatantly dissabuse' me of anything, and most certainly not in a suprising manner - the more honest and on-the-ball SWP/RESPECT members have as much as admitted it on here, and it's transparently obvious to anyone with any political nous or understanding of the history of small leftist parties in this country. But still, if you're in the not-realising-what-the-party-was up to camp...or maybe you're in the the must-hide-what-we're-up-to bloc?Groucho said:
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