I corrupted a vegetarian.

[Herbsman.]

No Herbsman it wasn't that I think you can't get enough protein from a veggie diet but I've even known people who are vegetarian and were worried about their children being veggie because of the lack of protein and growth.
It's something that's instilled in all of us that we need meet to grow.

Ah, I see what you mean, I thought that's what you meant, but it wasn't 100% clear to me.

I just needed an excuse to write about protein, cos it's always on my mind

 

[moose]

Did you have to buy, or rob, and then cook your own food?

She gave me an allowance to buy food, and I cooked it myself.

 

[izz]

While a child is living in the parental home then he or she is subject to the rules of the household. Deliberately undermining those rules is overstepping the mark and downright bad manners, regardless of how trivial you believe the issue to be.

 

[Shippou-Sensei]

that depends

is the child actually banned from eating meat or is it simply the parents don't cook it?

and to be honest i think it should be the child's choice to be vegetarian or not , banning the consumption of meat is overstepping the boundaries.... especially if the kid is over about 5-7 and so understands the basic choice

not cooking meat however is fine...

 

[izz]

I was being pretty general rather than waffling specifically about the veggie family issue but to return to that, i'm reminded of the john burton race documentary series where he took all his family to france for various reasons including trying to get them to be more open-minded about their diets and eat more interesting and healthy food, when the mother in law turned up for a visit with suitcases of white bread - i thought, evil undermining witch.

 

[Louloubelle]

this thread is very relevant to this this one IMO

 

[editor]

is the child actually banned from eating meat or is it simply the parents don't cook it?

and to be honest i think it should be the child's choice to be vegetarian or not , banning the consumption of meat is overstepping the boundaries....

I don't think it would be possible to 'ban' meat from a child's diet, short of following them around every minute of the day and stopping them from buying burgers or whatever, but if both parents are veggie, I see no reason why their kid shouldn't have the same diet as them at home.

I certainly wouldn't expect parents to start cooking meat products at home for them.

After all, a veggie diet is every bit as healthy as a meat-based diet - if not more so considering the meat based slop that is targeted at kids - and parents have every right to bring up kids in the way that think is the best for them.

And the OP boasting of "slipping" someone else's kids meat and fish against their parents' wishes is an prick.

 

[editor]

No Herbsman it wasn't that I think you can't get enough protein from a veggie diet but I've even known people who are vegetarian and were worried about their children being veggie because of the lack of protein and growth.

A proper veggie diet provides all the protein a child needs.

Are you sure you're not getting confused with vegan diets?

...since vegetarian diets are generally high in fiber, low in cholesterol and low in saturated fats (all characteristics of a healthy diet), they may actually be more healthy than most American diets and may lead to a lower risk of obesity, heart disease, high blood pressure and Type II diabetes.
http://www.keepkidshealthy.com/nutrition/vegetarian_diets.html

 

[bluestreak]

Going on some of the points raised in this thread would it be ok with people then if non-vegetarian parents insisted that their children should include meat in their diet and not be vegetarian unless outside the house or able to buy and cook their own food ?

I've known that to happen, believe it or not. No, it wouldn't be OK, it's an unpleasant bullying tactic made up by the sort of people who when faced with the science that shows meat-eating diets are unsustainable and fucking terrible for the planet, just shrug and say something like "i only eat meat six times a week".

Of course, yes, that is a hypocritical argument, but meh, such is life.

 

[CharlieAddict]

From what I have read about sports nutrition it is widely agreed that athletes need 1.2-1.8 grams of protein per kilogram of bodyweight per day. Thus, a 12 stone cycle courier like myself requires approx. 90g-140g of protein per day. Even as a vegan this is a piece of piss to exceed with a good diet. For a vegetarian it would be even easier. Apparently the 'general population' i.e. sedentary people require just 0.6-0.8g per kg per day.

Let me also point out that excessive protein consumption, although rare, can cause dehydration, urinary calcium loss (and thus is linked to osteoporosis) , and kidney problems. Not something the average person has to worry about, but still.

it's true that a animal free diet can provide all the necessary vitamins and minerals needed for physical growth/well-being.

but for sports nutrition, the quality and type of protein plays a huge part in physical performance.
like staying away from soy protein as this stuff can cause estrogen levels to rise and prevent muscle growth (defo not good news for athletes that depend on 'explosive' / 'angry' power).

and more whey protein (an animal produce) that contains the highest values of both essential and non-essential amino acids to provide optimal strength/muscle growth/recovery.

there is a reason why so many 'power' athletes eat chicken, tuna and turkey - as these food sources have such a high biological value...

however, there are great advantages to a vegan diet (for normal folk).
low cholestral/lower blood pressure that can significantly reduce the risk of heart disease.
and it's generally good if you want to lose weight.

 

[editor]

there is a reason why so many 'power' athletes eat chicken, tuna and turkey - as these food sources have such a high biological value...

It's worth pointing out that there's no shortage of sportsmen competing at the very highest level who have been veggie.

People don't need meat to excel at sports.

 

[tarannau]

Taking veggie kids to a Chinese banquet is somewhat akin to poking a caged tiger with a stick and taunting it with a shin of prime rib, held just out of reach.

Ok, so I'm hyperbolic here, but a festive Chinese cook up is no real place for vegetarians to be. For all my family's diversity and tolerance, I suspect that my 'aunts' and mum would be slipping any vegetarian relatives a few choice meaty morsels so they didn't miss out as well.

It's unfair to impose your dietary wishes on a child imo. Let the kids decide to a large extent.

 

[Termite Man]

Not if they're paying for what the kids eat.

so by that logic if a kid wanted to be vegetarian at 14 and the parents only bought meat for them then that would be ok too* ?



*apart from the bad diet with a severe lack of vitamins and lots of other good stuff in veg

 

[tarannau]

It's worth pointing out that there's no shortage of sportsmen competing at the very highest level who have been veggie.

People don't need meat to excel at sports.

Very, very few professionals who compete in contact or power sports are vegetarian or vegan though. It's very difficult to get the comparatively huge amounts of high quality proteins into your body to aid recovery and boost muscle.

Even my old training diets used to consist of nearly a kilo of lean meat a day during the season - that to gain around 180-200g of protein every day. That was just about achievable by eating a lot of (whole) chickens. However you'd need to eat something like 40 eggs or 2 stockpots worth of lentils to get the same amount of protein from veggie sources. One way's a lot more pleasant and almost certainly healthier than another.

 

[FabricLiveBaby!]

Well if a parent has decided on a diet for their children, for moral, religious, cultural or health reasons, surely it's no one else's business, and to offer them something else out of mischief is just plain stoopid.

Just seems like some people think it's funny, or some kind of victory to make a veggie eat meat, knowingly or not. I suppose the same kind of people would find it hilarious to slip bacon into a Jew's food, or gob in someone's meal.

FFS, the girl is 14! Kids have had babies younger. get some perspective people.

It's not like she's gonna get cancer from prawn and get hooked on it and mug old grannies in the street..

And if the Jew asked that I slip him a bacon sandwich - it's entirely his decsition.

 

[Herbsman.]

for sports nutrition, the quality and type of protein plays a huge part in physical performance.

Agreed, of course.

like staying away from soy protein as this stuff can cause estrogen levels to rise...

Agreed - but there are other vegan protein powders, such as hemp protein (which is higher quality than soy, but sadly it cost about twice the price), brown rice protein and pea protein.

there is a reason why so many 'power' athletes eat chicken, tuna and turkey - as these food sources have such a high biological value...

Well, eating meat is no doubt the easies way of consuming high quality protein (and creatine if you include steak)...

True, there aren't that many vegetarian athletes. But vegetarianism is not really that popular, even amongst the general population. Add this to the popular belief that meat is essential for performance and the preconception that you cannot be strong or fast on a vegetarian diet and it becomes pretty clear why veggie athletes are pretty rare...

 

[editor]

Very, very few professionals who compete in contact or power sports are vegetarian or vegan though. It's very difficult to get the comparatively huge amounts of high quality proteins into your body to aid recovery and boost muscle.

But there are sports professionals - including Olympic gold medal winners - who were vegetarian, thus my point stands: you do not need meat to compete at the very highest levels.

The list of successful veggie athletes includes cyclists, tennis players, runners, boxers, body builders, marathon runners and swimmers, so that kinda rubbishes the notion that meat is somehow necessary to extreme fitness.

 

[editor]

so by that logic if a kid wanted to be vegetarian at 14 and the parents only bought meat for them then that would be ok too* ?

The child could do what I did was a kid and simply not eat the meat that's on the plate (or pretend to eat it and spit it out after).

Besides, serving meat for every single meal isn't particularly healthy.

 

[CharlieAddict]

But there are sports professionals - including Olympic gold medal winners - who were vegetarian, thus my point stands: you do not need meat to compete at the very highest levels.

The list of successful veggie athletes includes cyclists, tennis players, runners, boxers, body builders, marathon runners and swimmers, so that kinda rubbishes the notion that meat is somehow necessary to extreme fitness.

of course you get veggie athletes.

but why would a power/full contact athlete limit themselves from eating a non-meat diet? performance is everything. so why eat excessive plant based foods when you can get everything in a smaller dosage of meat?

i can't think of heavyweight boxer, like ever who was a veggie. or a bodybuilder (maybe for that one time Mr Universe in the 70s but he was on roid head).

marathon runners - well that's a different story cos of their leaner physique.

 

[tarannau]

Nah, there are a couple of vegan bodybuilders and powerlifters iirc. But there again, I'm not convinved that - with their sacks of dubious supplements and unusual routines - their diet's the only contributing factor.

You'll struggle more to find, for example, professional rugby or american football players who don't eat meat. It's not solely cultural - maybe a winger or QB would be veggie perhaps, but the average lock forward needs a massive protein intake. You'd need to eat a staggering amount of vegetarian extras to achieve that aim.

 

[editor]

i can't think of heavyweight boxer, like ever who was a veggie. or a bodybuilder (maybe for that one time Mr Universe in the 70s but he was on roid head).

Ah. So now you're narrowing the supposed advantages of meat down to just 'heavyweight boxers' and 'body builders' eh?

It's not helping you, I'm afraid, as there's been both - and to save you narrowing the list of sports down even further, here's some successful veggie athletes, covering almost every sport.

Ridgely Abele
Karate national champion
BJ Armstrong
US Basketball star
Surya Bonaly – vegan
Olympic figure skating champion
Peter Burwash
Davis cup winner
Andreas Cahling
Body-building champion
Chris Campbell
Olympic wrestling champion
Nicky Cole
First woman to walk the North Pole
Di Edwards
Runner, Olympic semifinalist
Clare Francis
Sailor
Ruth Heidrich
6-time Ironwoman
Sally Hibberd
British women’s mountain bike champion.
Keith Holmes
World-champion middleweight boxer
Desmond Howard
Professional football star
Peter Hussing
European super heavyweight boxing champion
Kathy Johnson
Olympic gymnast
Debbie Lawrence
Women’s 5K racewalk – world record holder.
Sixto Linares
24-hour triathlon world record holder
Carl Lewis – vegan
Winner of 6 Olympic Gold medals
Cheryl Marek and Estelle Gray
Cross-country tandem cycling – world record holders
Ingra Manecki
Discus thrower – world champion
Bill Manetti
Power-lifting champion
Ben Matthews
US Master’s marathon champion
Robert Millar
Cyclist
Dan Millman
World champion gymnast
Ed Moses
Olympic Gold medalist twice at 400m hurdles.
Martina Navratilova
Legendary tennis champion with 166 titles, 9 times Wimbledon champion.
Paavo Nurmi
Long-distance runner, winner of 9 Olympic medals and 20 world records
Bill Pearl
Four times winner – Mr. Universe
Bill Pickering
World record-holding swimmer
Stan Price
World weightlifting record holder
Murray Rose
Swimmer – winner of many Olympic gold medals and world records
Dave Scott – vegetarian
6 times winner of the Ironman Triathlon of America.
Judith Oakley – vegan
Cross Country Runner and 3 times Welsh Mountain Bike and Cyclocross Champion.
Emmil Watson
Gladiators winner for England
Jane Welzel
US National marathon champion
http://www.vegetarian.org.uk/guides/foodofchamps.html

 

[CharlieAddict]

True, there aren't that many vegetarian athletes. But vegetarianism is not really that popular, even amongst the general population. Add this to the popular belief that meat is essential for performance and the preconception that you cannot be strong or fast on a vegetarian diet and it becomes pretty clear why veggie athletes are pretty rare...

that seems the most logical.
i mean if you go vegan, i suppose they only account to 2% of the population anyway.

i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that meat eaters have a higher testerone level...

 

[CharlieAddict]

Ah. So now you're narrowing the supposed advantages of meat down to just 'heavyweight boxers' and 'body builders' eh?
.

i said 'power' athletes orginally.
please go back to my threads.

thanks for that list but considering the number of sports out there
but that is still a small number.

 

[subversplat]

i wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that meat eaters have a higher testerone level...

Is this a fact, or a "FACT!"?

 

[editor]

i said 'power' athletes orginally.

To save me having to keep on posting up lists of successful veggie athletes, could you produce a list of these 'power' sports where it has been scientifically proven that a meat diet gives competitors a clear advantage over veggies?

We've covered successful veggie heavyweight boxers and body builders, so what else is there?

 

[tarannau]

I love the fact that the list above contains a large number of names that haven't competed for 20 odd years and nearly ends with a 'British Gladiators winner'

Which is more amusing than convincing if you ask me.


Still, I don't think anyone has got close to suggesting that vegetarians and vegans can't be hugeky talented athletes. However in power and contact sports, as others have suggested, you have to fanny around a helluva lot to obtain the same amount of vital protein from a veggie diet. Add to that the quality of the proteins is likely to be less as well.

 

[Buds]

s not helping you, I'm afraid, as there's been both - and to save you narrowing the list of sports down even further, here's some successful veggie athletes, covering almost every sport.

*Long List

Emmil Watson
Gladiators winner for England

Gladiators never has been, never will be and never should be considered a sport. It's pantomime for 'roid heads.

 

[editor]

However in power and contact sports, as others have suggested, you have to fanny around a helluva lot to obtain the same amount of vital protein from a veggie diet. Add to that the quality of the proteins is likely to be less as well.

ROTFL. You're saying that meat eating athletes in 'power' sports don't 'fanny about' with their diets at all?

 

[chymaera]

ROTFL. You're saying that meat eating athletes in 'power' sports don't 'fanny about' with their diets at all?

I was under the impression that food intakes are specifically tailored to the type of sport especially in the run up to a competion and over the duration of a competition.

 

[goldenecitrone]

I ate a vegan for Christmas dinner once. She tasted great. The stuffing was of course the best bit.