I am considerably more left wing than you.

[Fruitloop]

Infantile.

I am no particular fan of either Mcdonell or Corbyn. But they do at least have some integrity for standing up for what they believe in. There always have been and always will be wide differences of opinion in the Labour party.

Politics ulitametly is important because of the actions people take. A huge problem with people on the far left is they seem to forget its about practical action not just academic sniping.....

The truth is a lot of orthodox lefties are about as much use as chocolate teapots.....

The internal differences of opinion matter not a jot. What matters is what they do, and what they do is act as the other branch of the business party.

 

[tbaldwin]

The internal differences of opinion matter not a jot. What matters is what they do, and what they do is act as the other branch of the business party.

Childish Rubbish.
I am no great fan of either of them. But they do push for the policies they believe in.
You keep your academic purity lot of good that does eh fruitloop.....

 

[Das Uberdog]

Lot of good the reformist socialist labour movement's done up 'til now too, eh?

Definitely hasn't served to undermine any real hopes of a socialist society.

 

[trevhagl]

Late to the thread, but I would say that "considerably more left wing than you" definitely exists. It is a waste of time, usually quite juvenile and alienating.

But it aint half as bad as the phoney element left who continue to support, vote or campaign for a party that is authoritarian, neoliberal and corrupt.

The Morning Star is in permanent denial about this menace. Constantly referring to its favoured Labour MPs as "left MPs" and always referring to an entity which DOES NOT EXIST called "New Labour".

Day after day it refuses to accpet that the likes of Corbyn and Mcdonnell are members of a disgusting reactionary outfit. This is a far bigger problem than some Swappie numptie getting all uppity about their class fetish.

All i've heard about Corbyn has been good, maybe you can enlighten me otherwise?

 

[tbaldwin]

Lot of good the reformist socialist labour movement's done up 'til now too, eh?

Definitely hasn't served to undermine any real hopes of a socialist society.

Top 50 Achievements of the Socialist Workers Party aaaaahhhh...

 

[Patty]

I spent 10 years on the left, then, at 25 I came to the following conclusion:

Anarchists and socialists hang on to a psuedo judaic concept of heaven. That the working class, and humanity in general is in need of moral guidance from a minority who see some kind of higher truth. Either through revolution or reform they must be led to this better world of shareing and careing.

I'm sorry but its all rubbish. All attempts to implement a seemingly perfect society accrding to any theory have ended in brutality. Fact is that human nature is not as one sided as the ideas of Marx or Kropotkin etc etc.

From the earliest animals to evolve that ate each other to this age of nuclear weapons and sub machine guns suffering and violence have been a fact of existance. Nothing will be gained in trying to eridacate that through political theory, as the judaic religions have tried to suppress sexual desire and selfishness and failed.

I sympathise, really I prefur the "left" to the "right" but it just aint gonna happen. No amount of papper selling or critical mass bike riding or marching from A to B through central London or bonding with like minded people in a social setting is going to be enough.

We are just animals like any other and we instictivly put our immediate personal needs above all else. If we didnt we would be extinct by now. Ive reached the conclusion that the most Ican do is be as good person as possible, in spite of my selfish gene for self preservation on this brutal planet.

 

[dennisr]

I spent 10 years on the left, then, at 25 I came to the following conclusion:

Anarchists and socialists hang on to a psuedo judaic concept of heaven. That the working class, and humanity in general is in need of moral guidance from a minority who see some kind of higher truth. Either through revolution or reform they must be led to this better world of shareing and careing.

I'm sorry but its all rubbish. All attempts to implement a seemingly perfect society accrding to any theory have ended in brutality. Fact is that human nature is not as one sided as the ideas of Marx or Kropotkin etc etc.

From the earliest animals to evolve that ate each other to this age of nuclear weapons and sub machine guns suffering and violence have been a fact of existance. Nothing will be gained in trying to eridacate that through political theory, as the judaic religions have tried to suppress sexual desire and selfishness and failed.

I sympathise, really I prefur the "left" to the "right" but it just aint gonna happen. No amount of papper selling or critical mass bike riding or marching from A to B through central London or bonding with like minded people in a social setting is going to be enough.

We are just animals like any other and we instictivly put our immediate personal needs above all else. If we didnt we would be extinct by now. Ive reached the conclusion that the most Ican do is be as good person as possible, in spite of my selfish gene for self preservation on this brutal planet.

yeh, yeh, you could have summed it up with "I'm alright jack" rather than waste the time typing

 

[DotCommunist]

Right, animals evolved from those norious bastard individualists the primates. Primates never work together for the good of the troop, in fact every nature program ever is wrong and primates mainly get forward by hoarding resources for themselves as individuals.

 

[Das Uberdog]

Top 50 Achievements of the Socialist Workers Party aaaaahhhh...

Fucked over the Tankies and kept a proper Marxist/socialist intellectual tradition alive through the defeats of the last century, where it was in threat of descending into workerist bullshit.

It's a fairly big achievement if you ask me.

 

[ViolentPanda]

I spent 10 years on the left, then, at 25 I came to the following conclusion:

Anarchists and socialists hang on to a psuedo judaic concept of heaven. That the working class, and humanity in general is in need of moral guidance from a minority who see some kind of higher truth. Either through revolution or reform they must be led to this better world of shareing and careing.

I'm sorry but its all rubbish. All attempts to implement a seemingly perfect society accrding to any theory have ended in brutality. Fact is that human nature is not as one sided as the ideas of Marx or Kropotkin etc etc.

From the earliest animals to evolve that ate each other to this age of nuclear weapons and sub machine guns suffering and violence have been a fact of existance. Nothing will be gained in trying to eridacate that through political theory, as the judaic religions have tried to suppress sexual desire and selfishness and failed.

I sympathise, really I prefur the "left" to the "right" but it just aint gonna happen. No amount of papper selling or critical mass bike riding or marching from A to B through central London or bonding with like minded people in a social setting is going to be enough.

We are just animals like any other and we instictivly put our immediate personal needs above all else. If we didnt we would be extinct by now. Ive reached the conclusion that the most Ican do is be as good person as possible, in spite of my selfish gene for self preservation on this brutal planet.

The only vaguely messianic and/or Utopian "lefties and anarchists" I've come across in the last 30 years are the SWP (and their sock-puppets) and the AWL.

 

[lights.out.london]

And what is the point in being dead left wing? Other than male competitiveness?

I 'hate' Lefties. Bleeding heart tree-hugging museli munchers.

 

[tbaldwin]

I spent 10 years on the left, then, at 25 I came to the following conclusion:

Anarchists and socialists hang on to a psuedo judaic concept of heaven. That the working class, and humanity in general is in need of moral guidance from a minority who see some kind of higher truth. Either through revolution or reform they must be led to this better world of shareing and careing.

I'm sorry but its all rubbish. All attempts to implement a seemingly perfect society accrding to any theory have ended in brutality. Fact is that human nature is not as one sided as the ideas of Marx or Kropotkin etc etc.

From the earliest animals to evolve that ate each other to this age of nuclear weapons and sub machine guns suffering and violence have been a fact of existance. Nothing will be gained in trying to eridacate that through political theory, as the judaic religions have tried to suppress sexual desire and selfishness and failed.

I sympathise, really I prefur the "left" to the "right" but it just aint gonna happen. No amount of papper selling or critical mass bike riding or marching from A to B through central London or bonding with like minded people in a social setting is going to be enough.

We are just animals like any other and we instictivly put our immediate personal needs above all else. If we didnt we would be extinct by now. Ive reached the conclusion that the most Ican do is be as good person as possible, in spite of my selfish gene for self preservation on this brutal planet.

Loads of issue in that post.
I think tho the point about selfishness is why the left continually fail to have the impact they could and should.
I would argue that a more Socialist society is definetely in the self interest of the majority. That co-operation for the common good makes a lot more snse than fighting over pieces of the cake.

The problem for me is that the Left has come to be dominated by the ideas of middle class liberals. There understanding of issues is limited by their experiences, their guilt and their dishonesty.

 

[Patty]

yeh, yeh, you could have summed it up with "I'm alright jack" rather than waste the time typing

I would never take that attitude. Its not the aims of "the left" or even the motives and back grounds of the people involved that have put me off. Its the grand vision.
From the Crusades, the Spanish Iquesition to the modern day SWP etc etc there has never been an example in history where the all embracing theory has ever led to any good for humanity. Zealots are a dangerous thing and the left is full to the brim with them.