Huxley or Orwell?

[camouflage]

Anyone ever read the Iron Heel by Jack London?

What over interesting political dystopian novels are out there?

 

[DotCommunist]

Anyone ever read the Iron Heel by Jack London?

What over interesting political dystopian novels are out there?

I'll give it a read.

http://www.online-literature.com/london/iron-heel/


You read Philip K Dicks Man in the High Castle.?


alternate history politcal dystopia. very good.

 

[Gmart]

I have been reading a short review by Caitrin Nicol, who is assistant editor of The New Atlantis.

It is called "Brave New World at 75" and is here.

It starts with Huxley's quote:

The future is the present projected

It then goes on to quote HG Wells and Bertrand Russell. It mentions Wells' classic - 'Men Like Gods' but I would like to suggest that 'the Machine Stops' by Forster is also if the genre.

In the article she quotes Russell's comments on BNW:

what we cling to so desperately is the illusion of freedom, an illusion which is tacitly negated by all moral instruction and all propaganda. To us human life would be intolerable without this illusion. In Mr. Huxley’s Brave New World men live quite comfortably without it.

And the same might be said about Orwell's 1984. But this is surely poetic licence to illustrate the totalitarian extreme both books are describing?

The freedom issue is very interesting and has been commented on here on urban that we seem reluctant to fight for freedom anymore (see here).

Later the sad comment:

While John’s heroics are appealing, by the end of this exchange, it is hard to say that he has won our sympathies. He rejects “civilization” but finds no compelling alternative...

Huxley's Island tried to fill this void later, yet it is an ageless paradox to find oneself unable to produce a realistic alternative to the evidently flawed present.

She concludes:

Indeed, although democratically we will always be striving for a better society, and scientifically for a better life, the frequent conflict between these goods should remind us that we will never reach Utopia. And paradoxically, it is in the exercise of liberty and the pursuit of happiness that we may inadvertently damage the character of liberty and happiness themselves. Brave New World, then, is more than just a bleak inhuman specter of our future; it is an invitation to consider how to balance and preserve the things that matter most for ourselves and our posterity. We may remember Prospero, who, leaving behind his magical utopia for the brave old motley world of treason, dynasty, debauchery, and forgiveness, reclaims real responsibility and resumes his throne. It is part of man’s intense dignity that he is heir to multiple thrones, among them scientific mastery over that which no other form of knowledge can control, and moral insight into that which science may never see. Abdicating either one would frustrate all we strive to be.

 

[camouflage]

I'll give it a read.

http://www.online-literature.com/london/iron-heel/


You read Philip K Dicks Man in the High Castle.?


alternate history politcal dystopia. very good.

I've considered it several times, but still havent. I've heard Philip K Dick writes crap fiction and I've never taken the time to risk one of his books.

 

[DotCommunist]

I've considered it several times, but still havent. I've heard Philip K Dick writes crap fiction and I've never taken the time to risk one of his books.

You heard wrong (imo). P K Dicks is a damn good ideas man. The execution of the ideas sometimes falls down, but man in a high castle is excellent.

On chapter three of Iron Heel. Suspending judgement for the mo, but enjoying the style.

 

[butchersapron]

I've considered it several times, but still havent. I've heard Philip K Dick writes crap fiction and I've never taken the time to risk one of his books.

What fucker said that?

 

[DotCommunist]

What fucker said that?

one with no taste obv.

 

[DotCommunist]

The weakness in their position lies in that they are merely business men. They are not philosophers. They are not biologists nor sociologists. If they were, of course all would be well. A business man who was also a biologist and a sociologist would know, approximately, the right thing to do for humanity. But, outside the realm of business, these men are stupid. They know only business. They do not know mankind nor society, and yet they set themselves up as arbiters of the fates of the hungry millions and all the other millions thrown in. History, some day, will have an excruciating laugh at their expense.

You know I'm liking Jack London already..

 

[camouflage]

You know I'm liking Jack London already..

The metaphysician explains the universe by himself, the scientist explains himself by the universe.

This sentense reminded me of every max_freakout thread I've ever scanned through ever.

 

[emanymton]

I was ramberling

 

[isvicthere?]

They both got it "right". However, Huxley's vision has a longer sweep of validity.

 

[isvicthere?]

1984 is bleak. BNW isn't.

BNW is not bleak? Are you sure?!

 

[chainsaw cat]

1984 is a better social statement than BNW which is a sci-fi with a socital statement attatched to it.

There's also alot more to BNW than Soma, Max. I wouldn't say it was the crux of the book myself.

1984 is bleak. BNW isn't.

BNW is as bleak as 1984.

1984 = humanity being kicked out of humans, defeat of humanity.

BNW = humanity being thrown away, surrender of humanity.

 

[chainsaw cat]

I've considered it several times, but still havent. I've heard Philip K Dick writes crap fiction and I've never taken the time to risk one of his books.

man in the high castle, go on, only a short book.

 

[Maurice Picarda]

Orwell was, of course, writing about 1948 and 1984 is about as much of a work of futurology as Gulliver's Travels is a guidebook.

 

[geoff64]

Orwell is a much better writer overall - no Q.

Has anyone ever read Huxley's other utopian novel - Ape & Essence. Awful writing - just lots of clumsy exposition. He should have stuck to non-fiction, imo. BNW ain't bad, but again it's a bit clumsy.

I can't think of anything I've read by Orwell that I could claim was badly written.

Huxley had some great ideas, of course, but he was best at presenting them through non-fic. Doors of Perception and Devils of Loudon are extremely good.

People prob know about his death. He knew had hours to live and asked his wife Laura to administer mescaline. He went out on a high ...

Laura Huxley's memoir of the later years of his life - This Timeless Moment - are incredibly interesting and moving.

When Huxley read '1984' he was very dismissive of it ...