Hundreds of flats in Canary Wharf development sell in hours - half to foreign investors

[bi0boy]

you are one of this class of individuals then,or unwittingly serving them? you seem to me reluctant to offer any alternative analysis of class or caste or whatnot but desperately trying to keep foreigners out of the discourse.

I don't have to offer an alternative class analysis when calling out racism, so neither do I have to offer an alternate class analysis while calling out xenophobia. That's what it is. Foreigners can come here as long as they can't afford to buy a house, right?

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't have to offer an alternative class analysis when calling out racism, so neither do I have to offer an alternate class analysis while calling out xenophobia. That's what it is. Foreigners can come here as long as they can't afford to buy a house, right?

thieving foreigners, i think you called them. why iyo is it xenophobic to point out who is buying these high end developments?

 

[bi0boy]

yes: but that's what some developers are doing. why have you no obvious condemnation of these developers?

They are marketing to cash buyers because it makes sense to them to sell off plan, which you can't do to mortgage buyers. The way to combat this while main thing the rate off house building is for councils, housing associations or other state backed housing infrastructure corporations to buy off plan.

 

[bi0boy]

thieving foreigners, i think you called them. why iyo is it xenophobic to point out who is buying these high end developments?

It's blaming high house prices generally on foreigners that is the problem. Anyway, foreign buyers are in the minority even for high end developments.

 

[Pickman's model]

They are marketing to cash buyers because it makes sense to them to sell off plan, which you can't do to mortgage buyers. The way to combat this while main thing the rate off house building is for councils, housing associations or other state backed housing infrastructure corporations to buy off plan.

that's not on the cards is it. the answer to so many problems is to do something impossible under current conditions but that's no real solution at all.

 

[stethoscope]

You'd think from this there had been a mass stoking up of anti-'foreigner' sentiment on the thread. You've pulled this shit out purely on Ed pointing out that a lot of these new developments are marketed almost uniquely to international investors which is a very real pressure and problem right now (and yes the Mayor, and the Tories, and all defenders of capital homegrown or international are all culpable too). Yes,of course there are other factors too, but it's not innappropriate to point out this particular dynamic we're seeing. Liberal fucking hell

 

[bi0boy]

that's not on the cards is it. the answer to so many problems is to do something impossible under current conditions but that's no real solution at all.

So let's restrict foreign buyers then? How does that help? May as well restrict foreign renters as well.

 

[bi0boy]

You'd think from this there had been a mass stoking up of anti-'foreigner' sentiment on the thread. You've pulled this shit out purely on Ed pointing out that a lot of these new developments are marketed almost uniquely to international investors which is a very real pressure and problem right now (and yes the Mayor, and the Tories, and all defenders of capital homegrown or international are all culpable too). Yes,of course there are other factors too, but it's not innappropriate to point out this shift we're seeing. Liberal fucking hell

I guess you haven't been ranted at for pricing people out of their homes because of your skin colour then?

 

[stethoscope]

I guess you haven't been ranted at for pricing people out of their homes because of your skin colour then?

Where has this been done on this thread?

I care about all working class people, especially in poorer parts of London, of all ethnicities, getting access to housing. Quite what the fuck you're trying 'point' to here I have no idea.

 

[brogdale]

I disagree, targeting foreign buyers will achieve nothing useful for British prospective homeowners.

There are, & have been, many examples of jurisdictions treating non-nationals differentially with regard to tax, asset ownership etc. Why would the UK state suppressing non-UK demand not contribute to an aggregate fall in demand for housing and eventual slowing/reversal in price?

 

[bi0boy]

Where has this been done on this thread?

I care about all working class people, especially in poorer parts of London, of all ethnicities, getting access to housing. Quite what the fuck you're trying 'point' to here I have no idea.

This thread has very little to do with working class access to housing and a lot to do with foreigners.

 

[Pickman's model]

So let's restrict foreign buyers then? How does that help? May as well restrict foreign renters as well.

those are your thoughts, not mine

 

[Pickman's model]

This thread has very little to do with working class access to housing and a lot to do with foreigners.

no foreigners working class then

 

[brogdale]

This thread has very little to do with working class access to housing and a lot to do with foreigners.

It does, in as much as vermin notions of access are mediated through the prism of "affordability" based upon an arbitrary (& ludicrous) percentage of 'market price'.

 

[brogdale]

Where has this been done on this thread?

I care about all working class people, especially in poorer parts of London, of all ethnicities, getting access to housing. Quite what the fuck you're trying 'point' to here I have no idea.

I think bi0boy regards discrimination against non-nationals in the housing market as dubiously nationalistic or xenophobic.

 

[mauvais]

Both arguments are daft in that they're not mutually exclusive. It can be (and is) a problem relating to foreigners whilst not being about immigration or the working class. And you can be against this pattern of foreign investment without being xenophobic. It's not even difficult.

 

[ViolentPanda]

The class of individuals investing in off-plan new-builds in central London do not really recognise things like nationality or race, they regard themselves as belonging to the post-national class with sufficient capital to benefit from free movement. The demand resulting from their investment preferences has massively accelerated the bubble of house-price inflation in the capital. This has nothing to do with perceptions of xenophobia, it is just what has occurred and continues.

Xenophobia, in these cases, is generally a phantom - something that the "chattering classes" attribute to "the lower orders" in order to validate the xenophobia they themselves feel, but are politically-afraid to voice.

 

[ViolentPanda]

You'd think from this there had been a mass stoking up of anti-'foreigner' sentiment on the thread. You've pulled this shit out purely on Ed pointing out that a lot of these new developments are marketed almost uniquely to international investors which is a very real pressure and problem right now (and yes the Mayor, and the Tories, and all defenders of capital homegrown or international are all culpable too). Yes,of course there are other factors too, but it's not innappropriate to point out this particular dynamic we're seeing. Liberal fucking hell

There's no anti-"foreigner" sentiment on the thread, except where bioboy has attributed - without substantiation, naturally - such sentiments to others.

 

[ViolentPanda]

This thread has very little to do with working class access to housing and a lot to do with foreigners.

Really?

OP mentioned "Far East investors". it did so not because such people are "foreigners", but because the developers mentioned marketing to the Far East, and such marketing is a trend.

maomao then mentioned the sales material being in Chinese, and the fact that the locale has a historic ethnic Chinese population.

The first person to even hint at xenophobia was yourself, in your first attempt to malign others.

Brainaddict then made a well-reasoned post as to why xenophobia wasn't involved.

You then contributed another couple of xenophobia suppositions in post #27, and in post #30 treated us to the thoughts of mayoral candidates on the subject of "foreign" buyers.

In sum, most of the xenophobia you're supposedly seeing is the product of your own attribution of xenophobia to others.

As ever, you've stewed yourself in your own piss.

 

[bi0boy]

Really?

OP mentioned "Far East investors". it did so not because such people are "foreigners", but because the developers mentioned marketing to the Far East, and such marketing is a trend.

maomao then mentioned the sales material being in Chinese, and the fact that the locale has a historic ethnic Chinese population.

The first person to even hint at xenophobia was yourself, in your first attempt to malign others.

Brainaddict then made a well-reasoned post as to why xenophobia wasn't involved.

You then contributed another couple of xenophobia suppositions in post #27, and in post #30 treated us to the thoughts of mayoral candidates on the subject of "foreign" buyers.

In sum, most of the xenophobia you're supposedly seeing is the product of your own attribution of xenophobia to others.

As ever, you've stewed yourself in your own piss.

I have stated that the xenophobia I am talking about is a more general phenomena, I haven't claimed it is occurring on this thread. I have stated that titles like that which this thread is endowed with don't help matters, particularity when they are based on a misreading of the source material.

 

[bi0boy]

and in post #30 treated us to the thoughts of mayoral candidates on the subject of "foreign" buyers.

The link in post 30 actually contains some data regarding foreign buyers which you might find interesting.

 

[bi0boy]

Xenophobia, in these cases, is generally a phantom - something that the "chattering classes" attribute to "the lower orders" in order to validate the xenophobia they themselves feel, but are politically-afraid to voice.

Chinese members of my family have been subjected to it, that's where my concern comes from. But if you want to insinuate instead that I am a chattering-class closet xenophobe then that's up to you.

 

[mauvais]

I have stated that the xenophobia I am talking about is a more general phenomena, I haven't claimed it is occurring on this thread. I have stated that titles like that which this thread is endowed with don't help matters, particularity when they are based on a misreading of the source material.

There is a problem. The problem is using property as an investment vehicle commodity instead of a residence. The commodity of UK property is globally traded, and so the problem inherently involves foreigners, but that they are foreign is not the most relevant characteristic. That would be that they're trading in property.

You would have to either misrepresent the situation or totally fail to understand it in order to link foreign investors to foreigners in general using this ticket.

Who of any significance is going to conflate WC immigrants with Saudi princes?

 

[ViolentPanda]

The link in post 30 actually contains some data regarding foreign buyers which you might find interesting.

I read it. I didn't find it interesting. There's already awareness that the phenomenon is top-heavy (i.e. situated more at "prime" properties). What it doesn't take account of too well, is the surge of "buy to let" behaviour that is biting chunks out of the "non-prime" property market too. This does have a knock-on effect for buyers and renters. It raises prices through supply constriction. If properties are sold off-plan overseas at the same time or before they're offered in the "home market", it can't help but have consequences that some buyers and renters might take umbrage at.

BTW, "The Economist"? Better off reading the FT than the 'con's puff pieces for neoliberalism.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Chinese members of my family have been subjected to it, that's where my concern comes from. But if you want to insinuate instead that I am a chattering-class closet xenophobe then that's up to you.

If you want to infer from my post, that I was making such an insinuation, I'm perfectly comfortable with that. If nothing else it places a marker on your thought processes.

 

[bi0boy]

I read it. I didn't find it interesting. There's already awareness that the phenomenon is top-heavy (i.e. situated more at "prime" properties).

What is interesting is that ownership by those without a British passport is only around 3%. A similar pattern is seen is Canada where there has been an outcry over foreigners "inflating" house prices in certain cities but the actual figure again is around 3%:
More foreign buyers snapping up Canadian condos: CMHC
Sure there is a much higher proportion of foreign buyers buying e.g. $5,000,000 mansions in Vancouver, but the effect that has on first time buyers is simply not significant.

What it doesn't take account of too well, is the surge of "buy to let" behaviour that is biting chunks out of the "non-prime" property market too. This does have a knock-on effect for buyers and renters. It raises prices through supply constriction. If properties are sold off-plan overseas at the same time or before they're offered in the "home market", it can't help but have consequences that some buyers and renters might take umbrage at.

According to the article "increased lending to landlords (both British and foreign) pushed up prices by 7% in 1996-2007, compared with an overall increase of 150% over the period". I'm not sure how buy-letters constrict supply for "buyers and renters". For buyers sure, but not the overall housing stock for buyers and renters. If buy-to-letters where diminished I am sure the house-building rate would decrease accordingly.

BTW, "The Economist"? Better off reading the FT than the 'con's puff pieces for neoliberalism.

I'll read whatever provides some insight into a situation, regardless of the editorial slant. If you find yourself only able to only read publications the editors of which agree with your world view then that's your loss.

 

[Pickman's model]

What is interesting is that ownership by those without a British passport is only around 3%. A similar pattern is seen is Canada where there has been an outcry over foreigners "inflating" house prices in certain cities but the actual figure again is around 3%:
More foreign buyers snapping up Canadian condos: CMHC
Sure there is a much higher proportion of foreign buyers buying e.g. $5,000,000 mansions in Vancouver, but the effect that has on first time buyers is simply not significant.



According to the article "increased lending to landlords (both British and foreign) pushed up prices by 7% in 1996-2007, compared with an overall increase of 150% over the period". I'm not sure how buy-letters constrict supply for "buyers and renters". For buyers sure, but not the overall housing stock for buyers and renters. If buy-to-letters where diminished I am sure the house-building rate would decrease accordingly.



I'll read whatever provides some insight into a situation, regardless of the editorial slant. If you find yourself only able to only read publications the editors of which agree with your world view then that's your loss.

have you visited canada recently?

 

[bi0boy]

have you visited canada recently?

Yes, why?

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes, why?

right. and did you pop by toronto while you were there?

 

[bi0boy]

right. and did you pop by toronto while you were there?

Not last time no, although I have been there. I am aware it has a different housing problem to Vancouver, as it has seen a proliferation of high-rise apartments whereas Vancouver is still mostly houses. When I was in Toronto in 2010 the locals were telling me all about the housing bubble and it's imminent collapse.