Human Resources

[Streathamite]

as someone who spends half his working life working with/through HR depts, and the other half trying to outwit/evade them, my thoughts on this subject are many and complex.
suffice it to say, that there's been to much damn generalising on this thread, and I'll post a more considered, thought-through response later

 

[Brainaddict]

I loath the term 'human resources;' makes people sound like livestock.

Indeed, this occurred to me the other day and I almost posted a thread on it. A resource is a *thing*. I'm not a *thing*, I'm a person goddammit. What's wrong with Personnel Dept? Cunts.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

A more caring and sharing name for 'Hiring and Firing'

Jesus someones being taking Orwell lessons then!?

 

[Barking_Mad]

The very name 'Human Resources' makes me want to be sick - human beings are NOT resources.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

I think that in large, ambitious organisations with weak or no unions, HR are far more likely to be aggressive than in organisations where they are not able to behave with impunity. My experience of yesterday was a typical we-can-do-whatever-we-like-we-will-see-only-what-we-want-to-see experience. Very nasty indeed.

I have no doubt that there are HR people who do not act in that way or see their role in that way, but it's not half going to help if they are unable to act in that way.

 

[Donna Ferentes]

Incidentally, if anybody really can't see the difference between an HR operation and a bulletin board moderator, they really need to get a sense of proportion.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Just for the record, and so that no-one is in any doubt, I have also come across nasty and vindictive HR people. But then, I have come across nasty and vindictive people in lots of walks of life.

But I can't stop - got to get off to yet another meeting with some HR folks. I think this will be my third today!

I don't get paid enough for this!

 

[dormouse]

My experience of HR people has been limited as I spent most of my working life in a company which didn't have any.

My first employer did though and my most memorable experience of them is the time I was made redundant, and the HR manager who announced it had a go at me because I didn't react properly (I smiled for a moment, partly in shock - a group of us had been called into a room for an undefined 'meeting' and there had been no warning or rumours - and because I was damned if I was going to look upset). One of his colleagues apologised to me next day - apparently he had been 'under a lot of stress with the redundancies'. My heart bled for him, it really did. He was loving it - the justification of his existence, as somebody else put it.

 

[dormouse]

Oh yes, another example. The wife of somebody I used to work with. She was outside the building one day and people crowded to the window to look at XXX's wife (no, I havee no idea why). XXX told us something 'really funny' next day - apparently she had looked up at uthem all and said 'who's the darky?' (one of the team was from Goa.)

For some reason I have very little faith in the HR 'profession'.

 

[belboid]

It can quite easily become illegal, in your case if you were hanging around, you could raise a grievence which they ignore, you appeal they ignore, you make subsequent complaints, possibly substantiated by other persons. You leave claiming constructive dismissal on the grounds that they allowed a senior manager to bully you effectively destroying the employment contract.

a pedant notes:

that's not illegal, it can become unlawful, but it doesn't even need to be that for a case of constructive dismissal to be brought. and a good thing to, it gets much harder to prove things in a court of law, where reasonable doubt comes into play, than in an ET where it's on the balance of probabilities.

Most of the HR's I have come across in one guise or another have tried to be 'reasonable', but they always end up backing and enforcing bosses decisions, no matter how stupid they are.

I tell a lie, I know one who refused to implement one mad redundancy scheme, and so became part of it.

 

[rennie]

the HR at my work are useless idiots. took em 8 months to give me my contract.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

I'm currently trying to construct a formal grievance against my HR dept, anyone in this thread gice me any pointers? Point me at any resources?

am googling for stuff myself but always good to ask

Do any of the HR/I deal with HR all the time types know when, in the eyes of employment law/unions etc you are technically 'disabled' - I been off for 6 months with an, as yet, undiagnosed condition am I classed as being covered by Disability Discriminaton laws? or what?
I'm applying for other jobs due to the general fuckwittery of HR and my boss

in the 128 working days [exc. weekends] I had off sick I had precisely 90 minutes of contact` with HR. Shameful. They have come out with such classics in the past as:
-walking a union rep off the premises when he called in on spec to ask if he could leave some leaflets stating he wasn't asked to come and he was therefore trespassing.
-telling people that they are not allowed on pain of dismissal, to reveal to their colleagues hw much they earn [what?]
answering questions, in my case, by taking a week to look uo the answer then emailing me the name of the case that set the precedent they are following - I pointed out that I am neitheran HR professional nor am I a lawyer so don't understand this 'answer' their response - make a formal grievance, in writing, no you can't email it to me [what?]

sigh

they have been in my experience at this company the single most ignorant and rude dept to deal with as well as secretive, bordering on lying imho.

There simply must be some good hr professionals about - they all seem to take the position that they employee is taking the piss though, whereas they should have the neutral approach n'est pas.

FM & Guinevere have both made good and bad points I think

 

[Hollis]

as someone who spends half his working life working with/through HR depts, and the other half trying to outwit/evade them, my thoughts on this subject are many and complex.
suffice it to say, that there's been to much damn generalising on this thread, and I'll post a more considered, thought-through response later

Human Resource Depts are full of twats.

Apart from the ones who post on Urban...

 

[belboid]

I'm currently trying to construct a formal grievance against my HR dept, anyone in this thread gice me any pointers? Point me at any resources?

I'm not entirely surte what your actual grievance is here - the general crpness, or the lack of specific comprehensible answer to a specific question?

For exact help, one would need to refer to your companies Grievance Procedure, however all GP's muist follow a few simple rules, laid out here (DTI site).

As you mention a union rep, I take it you are in one?

 

[Guineveretoo]

You could also look at the website of the Disability Rights Commission here for a definition of "disability", although the simple answer in your question is almost certainly "no". I fear.

Belboid's advice, of course, is good, although I would extend it to suggest that, in fact, you should ask your line manager, or HR (!) for a copy of the grievance procedure. I would also go a bit further than Belboid in saying that you should contact the union as a matter of urgency. I do hope you are a member!

Other than that, any advice we can give depends on exactly what it is you are trying to achieve by raising a grievance, so try and think about that and get that clear in your mind.

 

[Pingu]

Which HR people don't get paid?

our non exec director of HR ...

thouhg we are not really typical.

we operate in a niche market with highly skilled employees who are in short supply.

Our HR are mainly concerned with making sure we can retain employees and protecting them from some board members who want to penny pinch in easily identifable areas

 

[A Dashing Blade]

. . .
At best, the HR professionals' role is to keep an organisation and its workforce running efficiently and effectively, recognising that the workforce is the most valuable asset and that, if for this reason alone, they need to be motivated and supported.

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is one of the most delusional posts I've seen on Urban (and I include the P&P forum).

Motivate and support staff . . . . do me a favour. In my 20 year so-called career spanning several organisations from the small to the global I have never ever experienced nor know anyone who has experienced this.

HR departments exists to clear up messes (bad hirings etc). End Of.

 

[Techno303]

I myself am trying to get a full-time job in industry and have so far encountered HR 'professionals' who belittle and verbally attack me in interviews and those who advertise vacancies through several recruitment agencies at once as well as on their company websites. My applications are rarely acknowledged, and I consider myself lucky if I'm informed of the outcome of the application at all. Most of the time I think my application disappears into a black hole. If I try to chase my application, I'm treated as if I'm being a nuisance.

I can relate to this a little. A few years ago I decided I’d try and get out of academia so I applied for a job at a major medical/biomedical grant awarding charity. I got called for interview and had a fucking good shot at it with the initial interview conducted by the scientific team. The second round was with HR and to cut a long story short it was patently clear that the individual involved hadn’t even bothered to read my CV as well as being quite hostile during the interview. I am fairly convinced that I would have got the job if it wasn’t for the HR stage. In fact the whole process forced me to rethink and made me decide that academia ain’t so bad after all.

 

[Guineveretoo]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but that is one of the most delusional posts I've seen on Urban (and I include the P&P forum).

Motivate and support staff . . . . do me a favour. In my 20 year so-called career spanning several organisations from the small to the global I have never ever experienced nor know anyone who has experienced this.

HR departments exists to clear up messes (bad hirings etc). End Of.

I didn't take it the "wrong way". Telling me that my post is "one of the most delusional posts..." can only really be taken one way!

Before you start throwing insults around, perhaps you should re-read the post about which you are about to throw said insults!

I will wait to allow you to do so, before I decide whether or not to respond in any detail, and to draw attention to what I was actually saying in this thread.

 

[A Dashing Blade]

Have re-read.

I believe you were talking theory, whereas I stepped in with my size 12's and was talking practice.

On that basis I unconditionally retract my "delusional" comment.

Please accept my apologies.

 

[kyser_soze]

Have re-read.

I believe you were talking theory, whereas I stepped in with my size 12's and was talking practice.

On that basis I unconditionally retract my "delusional" comment.

Please accept my apologies.

You've worked for some shite companies then. I've had good and bad experiences of HR and basically it comes dow to whether the HR manager is IPD qualified to do the job and whether the company itself values the role of the HR department or simply uses it as a buffer zone between senior managers having to sack people of getting someone else to do it.

That as well as ensuring that companies remain up to scratch with relevant discrimination legislation, H&S, CPD targets, ISO accredititation...as well as being seen by just about every other manager/director as being a cost centre that produces nothing except hassle for them.

 

[Throbbing Angel]

You could also look at the website of the Disability Rights Commission here for a definition of "disability", although the simple answer in your question is almost certainly "no". I fear.

Belboid's advice, of course, is good, although I would extend it to suggest that, in fact, you should ask your line manager, or HR (!) for a copy of the grievance procedure. I would also go a bit further than Belboid in saying that you should contact the union as a matter of urgency. I do hope you are a member!

Other than that, any advice we can give depends on exactly what it is you are trying to achieve by raising a grievance, so try and think about that and get that clear in your mind.

what makes you say 'almost certainly no'?
I have some mad arthritic condition that hasn't been fully diagnosed - could be one of about 5 or 6 conditions, I thought arthritis was considered disabling/a disability?

 

[kyser_soze]

I thought arthritis was considered disabling/a disability?

YOu'd be lucky - my Ma has suffered from rheumatoid arthritis since she was a teenager and has NEVER received disability of any kind in 40 odd years.

 

[belboid]

what makes you say 'almost certainly no'?
I have some mad arthritic condition that hasn't been fully diagnosed - could be one of about 5 or 6 conditions, I thought arthritis was considered disabling/a disability?

if you have a diagnosis of 'some kind of/non-specific arthritis' then you might be able to, if you are still awaiting any diagnosis, then the answer will be no.

 

[pootle]

HR people all seem to be camp men where I work

Same here....

They are however about as much use as a chocolate fireguard, although of course at least you could eat that.

Nice enough people on the whole as individuals, but when it comes to dealing with important stuff like contracts, pay and leave, well....those who can get a job. Those who can't work in the area of dealing with those who have jobs.

 

[Guineveretoo]

what makes you say 'almost certainly no'?
I have some mad arthritic condition that hasn't been fully diagnosed - could be one of about 5 or 6 conditions, I thought arthritis was considered disabling/a disability?

I said "almost certainly no" because there had been no diagnosis at all, so no disability to define. The DDA guidance suggests that a condition which is expected, or has already, lasted for a year, is likely to fall within the Act, but without a diagnosis, one can't even find a condition!

Just being off sick is not enough to be protected under the Act.

But I can't tell if this is what you really needed to know, or if it is a red herring anyway.

Can you answer the questions asked by myself and Belboid earlier? That way, we could focus any advice which were able to offer.