Huge protests in Bangkok and around Thailand

[Jessiedog]

I can't make my mind up about these reddos.

Given that the reds are manifestly, largely, drawn from the rural poor (albeit being roused by other self-interested peeps,) and that the current administration is still unelected after a military coup and headed by a British-Public-School-educated member of the same-old-same-old "elite" of wealth, business, miltary, etc. etc. power.........

.........It's not that hard for me to generally sympathise with - and hoist my petard for - those demanding free-and-fair-elections.



Woof

 

[audiotech]

interesting comments from Giles Ungpakorn (Thai commie recently charged with 'lese majeste' for saying the King backed the coup) at
Bit surprised at them backing the red shirt movement, seems a bit like their sister orgs attitude in Zimbabwe with the MDC, which didn't exactly work out that well.

Thanks for that link.

 

[purves grundy]

I'd like to hear something from the Thai left which hasn't aligned itself with Thaksin - surely there must be elements which hate the elitism of the Yellows and the co-optation of the poor by a prick multi-billionnaire?

 

[Jessiedog]

I'd like to hear something from the Thai left which hasn't aligned itself with Thaksin - surely there must be elements which hate the elitism of the Yellows and the co-optation of the poor by a prick multi-billionnaire?

There's really only two acts in town methinks. Any other party is tiny in comparison. In fact it seems that, when it comes to elections, even the yellows are small compared to the reds.


Woof

 

[belboid]

another interesting piece from Giles U from Guardian the other day. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/13/thailand-human-rights

 

[Barking_Mad]

Ermm......

Thai Army to starve protesters

The Thai government turned to siege tactics today over the standoff with protesters barricaded in central Bangkok, announcing that the army would limit supplies of water, food and electricity to the protest zone.

An army spokesman said security forces would "not use force at this stage".

"This is a full-scale measure to limit the freedom of protesters and to close down the area 100%, starting at midnight," said Colonel Sansern Kaewkamnerd.

But the wording of the announcement raised fears of more violence in Thailand's two-month political standoff if the red shirt protesters refuse to disperse.

The new measures were announced a day after the Thai prime minister, Abhisit Vejjajiva, warned protesters who have paralysed Bangkok's central business district to leave by the end of today.

The anti-government protests have forced the closure of luxury hotels and damaged the economy, particularly in the tourism sector.

"Electricity and water supply, as well as food, will be limited," Sansern said, warning local residents that they should consider alternate accommodations.

Chances of a negotiated settlement to the standoff appeared to be unravelling. A government spokesman, Panitan Wattanayagorn, said late yesterday that the prime minister had rescinded his compromise offer to hold early elections on 14 November as part of a reconciliation deal.

"He said there will no longer be any more compromises or conditions," Panitan said. "Their refusal to stop the protest meant that the conditions that were set are being cancelled, including the election date."

The protesters vowed to hold their ground, with one of their leaders, Weng Tojirakarn, saying: "The prime minister must not threaten us and must not disperse us. If he wants more deaths, so be it. I don't."

Since the red shirt protest started 12 March 29 people have died and more than 1,400 and wounded in several violent incidents, according to the health ministry.

 

[Barking_Mad]

They've called that off in favour of the kettle by the looks of it.

The Thai military says security forces plan to surround a protest encampment in Bangkok with armoured vehicles.

A spokesman said that routes into the sprawling encampment would be closed at 1800 (1100 GMT). Protesters would be free to leave but not enter, he said.

The move comes a day after the government announced and then cancelled a plan to cut off water and power supplies to the protesters.

The group have been occupying key parts of the capital since 14 March.

They want Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva to dissolve parliament and call fresh elections.

He had offered polls on 14 November - but the two sides failed to agree a deal because of divisions over who should be held accountable for a deadly crackdown on protests last month.

The BBC's Rachel Harvey in Bangkok says the fear is that more blood may be spilled before this crisis is brought to an end.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8679218.stm

 

[Yossarian]

Note to Thai military/yellow shirts: If you're trying to improve your PR, try not to shoot Red Shirt leaders in the head while they're being interviewed by the New York Times.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/14/world/asia/14thai.html?hp

General Khattiya’s last words before being shot were, “The military cannot get in here.”

 

[xes]

Bastards! Lets hope this backfires and makes the red shirts more determined to fight the corrupt goverment.

 

[belboid]

jesus fuck.

What effect will that have on the redshirts who were already condemning Khattiya I wonder.

 

[dylans]

There are no good guys here. The Red shirts support Thaksin, the evil fucker who sent death squads to shoot drug dealers and suffocated hundreds of Muslims from Southern Thailand. The yellow shirts supported the coup that kicked him out. Civilian politics is a disaster in Thailand, expect another coup.

 

[belboid]

you are being far too simplistic, i think. Social movements have a dynamic that cannot be simply controlled by the official leadership, and this could well happen with the redshirts. Indeed it already has to an extent. Khattiya had been slagged off by the official leadership. Thaksin is indeed a cunt, but it is wrong to equate the movement with him.

 

[belboid]

getting heavier and heavier, 15 dead, and what sounds like a 'shoot to kill' zone established

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8684363.stm

 

[dylans]

I think you may be right.

Mr Thaksin is such a flawed and divisive figure that it suits the Government of Abhisit Vejjajiva to explain away the entire opposition movement as a tool of Mr Thaksin, and its followers as hapless peasants bought or brainwashed by him. Of course, there are plenty of Thaksin fans among the Red Shirts, but plenty of them are not motivated by love, or even approval, of the former Prime Minister and his politics.

A year ago, Red Shirts were predominantly rural people from Thailand’s north and northeast; this time at least 70 per cent of them are Bangkok people. The movement now encompasses old-style lefties (known as the “Red Siam” movement), middle-class liberal intellectuals, and people from all backgrounds who may dislike Mr Thaksin, but dislike even more the tools of military coup and parliamentary wheeler-dealing that were used to oust an elected prime minister.

What is interesting here is the role of the King. As most people know he is revered in Thailand and his distaste for the reds and sympathy for the yellows is unstated buy obvious. (yellow is the colour of the monarchy)

Now something that previously would have been unheard of is stirring. Republicanism
Most fascinating is a submerged element of Red Shirt sentiment, and one which its leaders vehemently deny — a faint, but unmistakable, whiff of republicanism. Under Thailand’s lèse majesté laws, anyone who questions the monarchy can be sent to prison for 15 years, so it’s not surprising that Red Shirts as a movement publicly shun anti-royal sentiment. But there are mild, subtle hints nonetheless, beginning perhaps with the colour adopted by the movement — red, historically associated with revolution, republicanism and the radical left, as opposed to yellow, the colour of Thai royalty.

Off the record, Red Shirts speak of their belief that members of the royal family (although not the ailing King Bhumibol Adulyadej himself) are supporting the Government against them, as they allegedly supported the coup against Mr Thaksin. Publicly, their disgust takes the form of attacks, not on individual royals, but on Prem Tinsulanonda, the elderly head of the Privy Council, whose house has been picketed by demonstrations.

I think the military are going for another coup and the King will allow it. Then we may see something incredible, a movement against the monarchy.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/world_agenda/article7103852.ece

Hate to say it but yeah you were right and I was wrong.

 

[lopsidedbunny]

Cab someone ask me why the "red shirts" who are being back by the former PM who sold of their nationalized Telephone company and which doing bought for himself. The poor and the farmers backing this ex PM?

 

[dylans]

Cab someone ask me why the "red shirts" who are being back by the former PM who sold of their nationalized Telephone company and which doing bought for himself. The poor and the farmers backing this ex PM?

I think this goes way beyond him. Thaksin is an asshole for sure but this is not about him. It's about the fact that a democratically elected government was ousted in a silent coup because the old elites didn't like the choice that the urban and rural poor made.

What is significant is that the institutions of state that have so successfully presented themselves as revered national institutions are increasingly being seen for what they are, defenders of an old moneyed royalist elite who despise democracy and the rural populace.

 

[Yossarian]

I think the military are going for another coup and the King will allow it. Then we may see something incredible, a movement against the monarchy.

Bhumibol - ably assisted by some fairly unpleasant military dictators - is responsible for elevating the monarchy back to its current exalted position in Thailand.

You won't find many Thais with a bad word to say about the king - or even many who don't believe that he's merely human - but his heir apparent, Vajiralongkorn, is widely despised. Bhumibol's 82 and has been in hospital most of the time since September last year, when he gets around to dying I think the power struggles that follow will probably make the current mess look like a picnic.

Doesn't really seem like there's any ready way for Thailand to move on from this, sadly, I guess whichever faction wins control of the army after Bhumibol goes will end up running an authoritarian state for quite a few years.

 

[dylans]

I think serious bloodshed is coming. The fact that the movement has survived sporadic attempts by the military to destroy it and the fact that the military is divided might convince the army to go in with a full crackdown. Federico Ferrara says this

At this point, I have a feeling that this might be just the beginning of the worst massacre of pro-democracy demonstrators in the history of the country. The fact that so many people have died without the army having gained much ground seems like a rather ominous sign that executing the full dispersal will take several times the number of casualties that are being officially reported at this time. From the government's standpoint, however, the worst case scenario is that the crackdown fails despite having killed dozens of people. So unless somebody stops them (a brave general like Krit Srivara did with Thanom in 1973; or someone else), my guess is that they will go all in. Having already started opening fire on civilians, journalists, emergency medical personnel, and generally everything that moves, the difference between 50, 100, or 200 deaths is just a number on a piece of paper.

http://www.facebook.com/notes/feder...202076#!/notes.php?id=119595068067212&style=1

 

[editor]

There's chaos in Bangkok right now - loads of buildings are on fire after the protest leaders surrendered.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia_pacific/10124369.stm

 

[belboid]

live updates too - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/8691398.stm

Government do seem to be losing control, department stores being burned to the ground & massive shutdowns

 

[goebfwai]

Yet another country collapes into absolute chaos. How many has that been now?

 

[elbows]

Yet another country collapes into absolute chaos. How many has that been now?

Given my views on the likely problems in decades ahead, I think I shall reserve 'absolute chaos' for something longer, more prolonged that affects a wider proportion of the population than events in some countries in recent years have. Im not wishing to downplay the significance, political consequences or horror that these things can bring, or the potential patterns, but I dont think its absolute chaos. And the chaos is usually at the final stages of the struggle, with events leading up to the breaking point being far more structured.

 

[fela fan]

Yet another country collapes into absolute chaos. How many has that been now?

Although i'm in sunny brighton at the moment, i don't think it's as drastic as this!

I haven't much to say about it all, because it can't be much more than conjecture, but it seems to me that thaksin has been a black hand here, instigating things from wherever his fugitive presence exists.

All this talk of republicanism is no more than conjecture either.

Don't forget that in the last three months of these protests, and this is not conjecture, something like 99.97% of the population have been getting on with their lives just as normal.

And also not conjecture, the local media have been out of order in consistently talking up 'civil war', which cannot help matters any.

If posters are interested in reading about the events in bkk and thailand that are not filtered (and often exaggerated and over-sensationalised) through western media and reporters, then they should go to thaivisa dot com and click on the expat forums and then choose bangkok or any of the other areas, for example chiang mai (where thaksin's from, and where i live!) further down the page. They can then read first hand accounts from foreigners living in thailand.

Meanwhile, i must say these long evenings in sunny brighton drinking the best beer in the world are rather enjoyable... i'll just let the thais do what they feel they must do. Most of the world's insane, so let them display their own brand of madness...

 

[Dr Jon]

...
Meanwhile, i must say these long evenings in sunny brighton drinking the best beer in the world are rather enjoyable... i'll just let the thais do what they feel they must do. Most of the world's insane, so let them display their own brand of madness...

You've come home to watch the end of the world with a proper beer ?

Smart move.

 

[fela fan]

You've come home to watch the end of the world with a proper beer ?

Smart move.

The pub had several outstanding ales, the choice brought tears to the eyes mate!

But, i'd rather watch the end of the world from my chiang mai home, so here's hoping i get back before that...!

I do have to say though that when i came over to england last week i knew it would finally kick off in bangkok. I missed the curfews the last time, and it's happened again.

 

[elbows]

edit - oops wrong thread, sorry.