Huge problem with my sons career advice

[Thimble Queen]

I didn't know what I wanted to do when I left school, I tried college and ended up leaving after a few months and continuing in the telesales job that I'd got over the summer after my GCSE's. I worked in that job about two years and did other little bits as well like flyering and working Saturdays at a skate shop.

I decided to go back to college at 18 off my own back, I got good grades at the end of my first year but wasn't sure I could be arsed to keep studying. So I got myself a job in a factory over the summer to remind my self what shit low paid was like. And ended up going back for a second year of college.

I guess my point is that I had to learn my own lessons, in my own time in my own way.

Maybe it'll work that way for your boy too...

 

[Cid]

First of all get rid of WoW and any other RPGs... He'll be pissed off for a week and then forget about it. Buy him a bike instead or something.

Secondly he's clearly just totally unconnected with school work and doing his homework for him is not going to help at all, especially since he's just plying WoW instead. You say he's intelligent so he shouldn't really find GCSEs too hard if you can get him interested, and he's got a fair few months yet to get it together... Sit down with him and talk about the subjects he's doing, think about ways of making them interesting. By that I don't mean 'science can be fun!', I mean watch some David Attenborough documentaries, get hold of those programmes Marcus Du Sautoy did about the origins of maths etc (actually there's a programme on iPlayer where he looks at consciousness which looks quite good), basically show him that these subjects are far more interesting than the snippets you learn at school. Maths especially is a subject in high demand with some genuinely fascinating career paths at the end of it. Is he interested in physics too or is he blighted by 'the physics teacher problem'?

He's 15... You need to remember that; did you have any idea what you'd end up being at 15? I was doing something similar at that age, just not engaged... However I had a good support network both from teachers (private school, had very good ones) and family. My mum was single and working as a self-employed architect (ie epically long hours) but managed to find time to help me and my sister out. Also an uncle who was very close to the family (both of their spouses died) and a good designer. It helps so much having passionate and engaging people around because it gives you a kind of vague aim in life.

Basically what I'm saying is you need to help him, and by doing this kind of stuff for him you're essentially creating a self-fulfilling prophecy; for me it would have been horrible to have the people closest to me telling me that I didn't really have much hope except in manual stuff (which I love and actually work in, but hey). You're viewing school as this kind of thing that he has to get through before he starts work, and to me that's a very negative way of communicating to someone who, as you say, is a) intelligent and b) enjoys maths. He may well be sitting there thinking 'well I'd love to be working on the large hadron collider but no-one would take that seriously'.

Sorry, I really have no idea what your parenting is like of course, so a lot of that may be unfair. I dropped out of uni (for health reasons largely) and retrained as a cabinet maker which I love (although I've got a job as a robotics engineer at the moment ), and I do recommend that kind of thing, but I'm always glad I managed to get through school and do pretty well (after a few retakes). Partly because it means I can go back to uni, but mainly because I learnt about random stuff and it lead to studying architecture (which, although I dropped out, was fascinating).

Stick with school for now, and try to help him, there's no rush to apply for work after all and it'd just be a lot of added pressure on him. The trades are good with young people as that's where most of them come from, also helps that you get 100% funding to train a 16-18 year old. But there is no need for him to do it now, he can always drop out after AS levels if he carries on with school.

You really need to look at what he wants, not in terms of what career he (or more accurately the adults around him) thinks he should move into, but in terms of what interests him. Yeah, he could go into work and some of the professions are great, but it's not hard to retrain into that kind of thing whereas it is bloody hard to motivate yourself to get back into education. Tbh it sounds like you could make this into a positive thing for yourself too, connect with him on learning about new stuff, give yourself a bit of direction by making it your task to help out and engage more... go for walks with him, have talks as an equal rather than concerned parent.

 

[BlueSquareThing]

I think the internet has fucked his head up, especially world of warcraft but i cancelled for 6 months and he started playing farmville. He blames not being to do his homework on having to use open office and apparently he has to have ms works. I dunno why the fuck there is so much emphasis on homework being done on a computer and IT. I guess we are lucky we have it, apparently you can't get on the schools facility because of the queue.

Hmmm, perhaps get into to school and ask about this?

And then, maybe, have the same conversation with him in the room as well if necessary. I do that IT teaching thingy in school, and neither of these things should be a problem (and if the school are telling him he needs works of all things... ) - OO isnt marvellous, but he'll be able to do 90% of what he needs to do on it. And the other 10% he could do at lunchtimes - there's nearly always kids in my room doing stuff at lunch.

Fwiw if he's borderline Cs he'll need coursework to be good - better than OK. A totally stab in the dark guess from what you've written about him leads me to suggest he's probably behind on his coursework and possibly starting to get stressed on it. That *is* a total guess based on the patterns of behaviour I see with kiddies all the time. Again, it'll depend on the school but people work all sorts of hours to help kiddies out on that sort of thing. *If* he wants to...

I dunno why he just cant google all his homework like I do, it's so easy now but to be fair on him the teachers are absolutely shit. The absolute babbled crap they put on assignments sometimes literally makes no sense. I sometimes have to look up the actual question as I can't work out wtf his teacher is on about.

I know it doesn't help, but I do recognise that problem...

 

[thought]

Stop worrying about it. He will sort out in time. I would actually just inform the school that your son is going to spend a year out at 16 doing voluntary work or something.. consider the ou some of the online courses? and that if they have a problem with that its there problem.. He has the rest of his life to decide what to do.. how many of us have changed direction .. Its not a hugh problem!

 

[ethel]

have you got a local connexions service?

http://www.connexions-direct.com/


i still don't know what i want to do btw and i'm 28

 

[Riklet]

Your son's only 15, I think you're maybe expecting a bit much, people need a bit of time. Every teenager and person develops and works things out at a different rate, and you can't really worry (and project your worries onto him) just because he's not worked out a career path by mid teens. People can develop and change an enormous amount in just a few years. Nothing is set or fixed. I don't think him not fully knowing his future n ambitions is a "huge problem", and clearly your love as a parent is very evident, but change and desires have to come from him. There is a fine line sometimes between helping and actively doing... you mention the homework situation. Perhaps it would be best if whilst you help and encourage your son, he needs to work out a routine and a mentality which will get it done. It's his work, he is the one who will be sitting the exams and possibly doing A-levels etc next year.

There are tons of courses at college. Have you got a big list, sat him down and gone through them? What about BTEC in computing and IT? I have friends who got fucking no where with A-levels and didn't really enjoy GCSEs (or anything about school at all) who were big geeks and found this more to their liking. Shit, it's free for him to go to college up until 19 (I think?) so he might as well try a few things out! Sculpture? Games design?

If he needs some time away from education then that might even work. He may get bored to tears from not doing much and not having money (claiming EMA is always a nice incentive) if he doesn't find a job. I also think you can't just say no jobs will hire a 16 year old, they certainly can and do, it depends on him, and what he's looking for. If you really want to do something "active" to give him ideas, what about trying a Morrisby test or something, that "might" be helpful? Give it some time anyway, it's far better he achieve his best rather than something being projected onto him, in the long run.

also lol at just "getting rid of WoW", yeah, ban the games, that's a practical solution, they are clearly the ONLY factor affecting the lad's life decisions...

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Has he got a Sat/weekend job?

If he doesn't even bother doing his homework,if Cloud does his homework for him, I can't imagine him bothering to get a Saturday job. He'd probably just ask Cloud to do it for him, surely?

Btw, do you not see any connection whatsoever between your son's failure to shine academically and your doing his homework for him?

I'm no expert but I assume the purpose of homework is two-fold - to reinforce knowledge learned in class and to help it sink in so that it can be remembered and also applied, especially in exam scenarios, and also, if a child doesn't scope well in their homework it might indicate that they haven't understood the lesson and if the teachers aren't aware of difficulties because parents are doing homework them they can't possibly be aware of problems and help the child.

 

[Wolveryeti]

I think the trauma of having to do his homework for the first time (and the possibly crap reception it gets) might be the catalyst he needs to get himself back on track.

 

[kabbes]

I dont think its me

What, at all? In any way? You have had no influence whatsoever on your son's attitude and behaviour?

In that case you might as well give up. If you've had no influence in the last 15 years then you have no chance of doing so in the next 3.

 

[girasol]

He's just making excuses. The school uses MS products and he doesn't want to have to figure out two ways of doing the same thing I guess that's IT Bod out the window then, otherwise he'd be going crazy trying to find other ways of doing the same thing.

very true

You should never do your kid's homework. I found that with my son the embarrassement of turning up without his homework (there was this one weekend I didn't tell him to do his homework to see if he would do it, and he didn't) once was enough to ensure it wouldn't happen again.

Helping out when they get stuck, yes, doing it for them, never.

 

[Corax]

What, at all? In any way? You have had no influence whatsoever on your son's attitude and behaviour?

In that case you might as well give up. If you've had no influence in the last 15 years then you have no chance of doing so in the next 3.

Yeah, I was being diplomatic. That's what I wanted to post.

 

[kabbes]

What's diplomacy ever solved, eh?

Anyway, sometimes you need the Hammer of Truth. Fuck it -- we have here a thread in which you have a wave of people talking about how unhelpful it is to do your son's homework and how this leads to the son not taking responsibility for his actions IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWED by the doer of a son's homework claiming that she has no fault as regards her son failing to to take responsibility for his actions. You Coudn't Make It Up!

 

[colacubes]

There is no work for 16 year old school leavers...

He's done work experience in a shop and did well. If it payed he would do that. I wish life was so simple for him but I've told him that he will never have a house, car or wife stacking shelves and dudes I'm sorry but this is becoming the truth.

Sorry but this resonated with me and it's absolute bollocks. I worked in a supermarket on and off for many years and there were people working there full time who had wives/husbands, supported their kids and had cars and houses. Yes the money isn't great and it's a struggle, but it's possible. With statements like that you're setting him up to believe he's a failure if he ends up in a job like that and there's absolutely no shame in it whatsoever. Sure perhaps it's not the career you envisaged for him but ultimately it's about him, not you.

 

[kyser_soze]

1. Stop doing your kids homework for him

2. Uninstall every piece of leisure software on the PC, and put a block on facebook and any other online communities he's on

3. Focus on getting him through his GCSEs and stop worrying about anything further than that for the moment. There are loads of post-16 quals he can do, including GCSE resits.

 

[cesare]

Sorry but this resonated with me and it's absolute bollocks. I worked in a supermarket on and off for many years and there were people working there full time who had wives/husbands, supported their kids and had cars and houses. Yes the money isn't great and it's a struggle, but it's possible. With statements like that you're setting him up to believe he's a failure if he ends up in a job like that and there's absolutely no shame in it whatsoever. Sure perhaps it's not the career you envisaged for him but ultimately it's about him, not you.

Yep, for sure. Plus there are trades that you can learn e.g. butchery, bakery, produce, deli.

 

[Cid]

also lol at just "getting rid of WoW", yeah, ban the games, that's a practical solution, they are clearly the ONLY factor affecting the lad's life decisions...

I'm guessing you've never played it then...

 

[scifisam]

Actually, these days there really isn't much work for 16 year olds. There was when I was 16, but things have changed. If you have contacts (a mate who has his own shop or something) then it's possible, but supermarkets and so on just aren't that interested. When they can get older, experienced, desperate adults (from Britain or elsewhere) for minimum wage, why would they bother with a 16 year old? The only advantage is that they can pay them less - minimum wage doesn't apply to them - but that doesn't seem to be enough of a plus. Look around your local supermarkets and takeaways and the like, and guess if anyone there's 16-18. Even my local family-run businesses rarely have teenagers working there nowadays. This is true for London and Essex, at least - perhaps some parts of the country are different.

(Actually, I have wondered if the other staff would need a CRB check when working with 16 and 17 year olds. You need a CRB check to teach kids that age, so maybe you need one to train or supervise them too. Looking online hasn't confirmed whether this is true or not).

Cloud, since you're broke he's going to have to go to college in some way or other. If he doesn't, you won't get child benefit, child tax credits or EMA for him. If he simply takes a year out (volunteering, looking for a job, etc) it'll be a year when you'll have no financial help to support him, and it doesn't sound like you can afford that. Besides, it's probably not the best time for a year out. He's too young to legally do most volunteer work and it'd be far too easy for him to get stuck in a rut.

If he ends up on a course that isn't right for him, it's not the end of the world. He might change once he's in the different environment of a sixth-form - a lot of kids do, especially if it's at a different venue to their regular school. Maybe he should try plumbing, if he's interested - if it turns out not to suit him then, well, at least he's spent his time making an effort and he'll probably pick up at least some skills from the course, even if he just learns a bit of independence and punctuality.

FWIW, it sounds like accountancy might suit him perfectly.

What are his friends going to do? Really, they're probably the biggest influence on him at his age. You do still have a lot of influence, though, and yeah, you really have to stop doing his homework.

 

[Cid]

There are still openings in vocational work (the government covers the training costs of 16-18 yo apprentices, 50% for older apprentices iirc), but even so that has become very popular of late so most look for at least some experience.

e2a: also of course there are a lot of craftsmen/tradesmen looking for work at the moment who are a much safer bet than a school leaver. Not to mention foreign labour.

 

[Pingu]

Is he good with people? Or even like 'em much?

I'm always recommending occupational therapy as a career choice - OTs are always in demand, so there's a lot of work about, you don't have to be academic to study and do it and it's a really interesting job. Needs good people skills and a caring personality above all.

this is true

friend of ours who is an OT was out of work for 3 days when last gig ended. in those 3 days she had 5 interviews

 

[grit]

I do most of his homework.

Stop that now, you are enabling him to behave this way.

 

[felixthecat]

He sounds a bit like my son, who is now 19.

get the prospectus from your local FE college and see what they have to offer - there might be something that takes his fancy. My boy ended up doing a Diploma in sports and exercise science and is currently working in the local co-op and coaching the college rugby team until he can start his next course to qualify him as a personal trainer. Its not what I would have wanted him to do, but he's happy, healthy, got some beer money and I'm pretty sure he'll end up ok (and probabaly a personal trainer for the Pussycat Dolls knowing how jammy he can be)

He's young, he's got plenty of time. He can retake exams or do literacy or whatever courses, or work as a shelf stacker for a while and do an access course and go onto university, or do an apprenticeship - the possibilities are endless.

But I agree - actually DOING his homework isn't going to help him. Perhaps if he didn't do it and ended up in detention after detention it'd wake him up a bit.

 

[free spirit]

I'm surprised nobodies mentioned getting him on a milkround, or paper round now, though I guess it might be a bit late, but at least it'd get him into the mode of doing some proper work, and give him something on his cv, a reference etc to help him get work once he's finished his GCSE's.

It'd also get him up and out early in the morning, getting excercise & daylight prior to school, so he'll be a bit more alert in school, and maybe even more able to concentrate on stuff other than WoW... it's amazing what an hour or 2's work outside can do for clearing the head.

I'd seriously not worry about it taking time away from his studies etc. as it sounds like he's not doing any anyway there's nothing to lose. Me, my brother and most of my mates did either paper rounds or milk rounds often morning and evening while doing gcse's and all got decent enough grades.

That was you can give him the option of spending his paper-round money on warcraft or something else, and maybe he'll think twice about it if he's having to work for it.

 

[lighterthief]

I do most of his homework.

Sorry, but...?

 

[Corax]

Sorry, but...?

No, that's unrelated.

 

[lighterthief]

No, that's unrelated.

Sure, it's really helping him take responsibility in his life.

 

[q_w_e_r_t_y]

He is exceptional at World of Warcraft

He is really bright. Because we have been so skint all our lives he is really interested in making money. If we take the game for example, he earns so much on there and always comes up with gold making ideas. He does sometimes come out with ideas for business and making money but they are very immature and not practical.

I think he could be an excellent businessman but as he lacks confidence, this is why I think he needs a trade to sell.

WoW, if he is actually good at it, will have taught him a whole load of stuff about leadership, motivation, teamwork etc which are all v. transferable skills - I guess its just about finding a real world application for them.

What about the exploring the games industry, if he's into gaming. With gaming becoming more and more mainstream lots of ops are opening up doing bits and bobs.

 

[8115]

Try getting in touch with connexions, they are a good service although I don't really know exactly what they offer, all I know is they are really good with that age group. Something like a BTec sounds ideal to me as it's a further qualification but not A-levels which are very academic. There used to be GNVQs as well, which were pretty good, not sure what happened to them. He sounds young to be in the police, personally I would say wait 5 years until he is 20ish, but that's just my opinion. I wouldn't advise going straight into work as he would probably be doing a dodgy minimum wage job.

 

[8115]

If he likes gaming, maths, physics, IT and business are probably quite appropriate subject areas.

 

[Corax]

Has Cloud ducked out of this thread at the point that it was suggested that he has some responsibility for his son's mindset?

 

[silverfish]

if I could do it all again, I'd get an apprentiship, get a trade and bang on making some cash, I'd then have as long as I wanted to decide what the plan was, knowing I could do more edumacation in the future

Having said that, and not many people on here will like this, perhaps he could do a bit in the services. You grow up fast (some say to fast) and get a bit of motivation/work ethic/confidence