Huge fire at Notre Dame cathedral, Paris

Discussion in 'world politics, current affairs and news' started by a_chap, Apr 15, 2019.

  1. Epona

    Epona Down with battered parsnips

    To be fair, that isn't the exclusive use of the building. It is also a huge boon to the tourist industry, and an important historical site.
     
  2. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    That's not what we're discussing though, is it? The subject here is whether or not a billionaire should fund the restoration instead of using the money to alleviate poverty.
     
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  3. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. I am just waiting for the next tomato..

    Or because Catholic France aided the Protestant forces against Catholic Hapsburg and Spain in the Thirty years war?
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  4. JuanTwoThree

    JuanTwoThree All Cretans are liars, Epiminides (Cretan)

    The point to make is that buildings that were designed to inspire awe do just that. The same could be said of ecclesiastical music. The Colosseum's purpose of human and animal sacrifice doesn't lessen its awesomeness. Likewise Gothic cathedrals, or the Valley of the Fallen here in Spain, whose purpose was hardly edifying but makes your jaw drop anyway. I wouldn't let it be destroyed either, partly because it's also a monument to the forced and unforced labour of tens of thousands of its builders. Just like Gothic cathedrals.
     
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  5. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    c4u

    and then plucky france fought on until the treaty of the pyrenees in 1659 Treaty of the Pyrenees - Wikipedia
     
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  6. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. I am just waiting for the next tomato..

    I was just back to edit, thank you.
     
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  7. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    I thought it was mainly for structural showing-off.
     
  8. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    the relationship between the catholic church in rome and the catholic church in france isn't entirely one of head office with a regional branch. if you cast your mind back to the compensation paid out in cases of child abuse, you'll recall that came from the diocese / archdiocese rather than from the papal funds. other than nd being a catholic construction i don't know it has any formal connection to rome - i'd have thought the insurance would pick up much of the tab.
     
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  9. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Are they really that thick? I thought those vaulted ceilings were actually improbably thin.
     
  10. dessiato

    dessiato Life is a lemon, and I want my money back

    Man as a species is capable of immense cruelty and destruction. Man is also capable of great empathy and of creating things of great beauty. To let these beautiful things be lost takes some small part of our humanness from us.

    It is not that Notre Dame is a church, nor that it is a Catholic or Christian church that matters. It is that it is part of that awe inspiring creativity that makes us that much better.

    To lose Notre Dame would be a great tragedy. To paraphrase, no man is an island entire of itself, if even one part should be lost each one of us loses.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2019
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  11. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    that too
     
  12. Crispy

    Crispy The following psytrance is baṉned: All

    They are. You can see in the night-time shot of the one vault that did collapse. No more than a foot thick I reckon
     
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  13. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. I am just waiting for the next tomato..

    I thought you meant the contractors!
    No, I should have put deep, I’ve edited.
     
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  14. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    Fair point, though the reason that is the focus of discussion results from the fact that the billionaire corporation that enjoys exclusive rights to the state owned property, apparently won't cough up.
     
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  15. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    I'll bow to you're greater knowledge here. I was under the impression that the CoR acted as a globalised corporation with some degree of control over it's glocalised satellites?
     
  16. brogdale

    brogdale Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism

    Yep.
    Like Versailles attracts 4 times the visitors of the UK Royal Households...maybe time for the state to evict the Church altogether and turn the restored building exclusively over to tourism?
     
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  17. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    Well they only have "exclusive rights" to its religious function (i.e. the Church of England or anyone else don't get to hold services in it) for which they have to pay. It's still owned by the state so it would be similar to you renting a house that needed structural maintenence which would usually be the responsibility of the owner, not the tenant. If the church owned the building then I'd completely agree with you but again, ND is far more than just a place of worship; it's one of the most significant icons of France and very much part of the state's fabric.
     
  18. Epona

    Epona Down with battered parsnips

    Why are you so ridiculously keen on preventing people of that religious persuasion from worshipping there? I'm not religious and do understand it (religion in general, and different denominations) as being a somewhat divisive force, but you can't just order the shutdown of religious sites and worship and expect things to go well. It just smacks of being intolerant tbh.
     
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  19. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    the degree of control has been a bone of great contention for centuries, and i think the bishop of rome has been happier to seek what control he might have over the french church while being reluctant to meet any of its liabilities.
     
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  20. scifisam

    scifisam feck! arse! girls! drink!

    I'm not sure there'd be as many tourists without the religious aspects. People are posting up their memories and lots of them include the incense, the organ music and the choirs. I'm not a believer but some of the ceremonial aspects of religion are beautiful and moving.
     
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  21. Epona

    Epona Down with battered parsnips

    I like incense, organ music, and choral music, and I am an atheist.
     
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  22. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. I am just waiting for the next tomato..

    It was originally used to portray an image and sense of the heavenly kingdom you could enter if you followed the rules, were good and didn’t wear a yellow vest.
     
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  23. T & P

    T & P |-o-| (-o-) |-o-|

    [​IMG]
     
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  24. Epona

    Epona Down with battered parsnips

    I didn't realise the yellow vest originated as early as the 12th century, sorry. Clearly that is a good reason for seeking the destruction of beautiful historic buildings. :confused:
     
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  25. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model every man and every woman is a star

    he can be relieved of his money which can then be applied to both endeavours.
     
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  26. Spymaster

    Spymaster Cockney Wanker

    Not to mention that a vast number of the architectural wonders of the world simply wouldn't exist were it not for religion. You don't have to be of faith to appreciate that/them. You'll always get commies trying to out-athiest everyone else though. ;)
     
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  27. Epona

    Epona Down with battered parsnips

    Just so you are all aware, the injection of cash is not going to rebuild the cathedral by itself, it's going to provide a load of jobs to builders and craftspersons.
     
  28. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. I am just waiting for the next tomato..

  29. Sprocket.

    Sprocket. I am just waiting for the next tomato..

    E807FE70-E3CC-418F-9461-B3758D927718.jpeg
     
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  30. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    The thing is, the value that people put on Notre Dame, the reason people are crying in the street and billionaires are stumping up millions of Euros, is not entirely related to its intrinsic quality as a piece of architecture or craftsmanship. The reaction to the fire is based more on its symbolic value and the fact that it's a well known building in one of the world's most popular tourist cities.

    I think for many people who are really into architecture, engineering and buildings, while there's no doubt it's sad to see this happen to Notre Dame, what can seem like a bit of an unthinking reaction is frustrating. There are comments upthread about how the money could be sent on foreign aid or homeless shelters instead. There's a whole argument about the principle of that logic, of course. But where my thoughts go is to all the buildings that are in severe neglect, or which have already fallen apart, thanks to lack of funding for their protection.

    I'd genuinely prefer to see it left as a ruin and the money spent on saving more architecturally significant buildings, especially ones that are unique in their representation of a particular building style or type (which I'd argue ND is not). No-one needs to worry about those with this preference though, because of course ND is going to be rebuilt. The money and effort spent on it will not be proportional to its importance as a piece of architecture or architectural history though. It'll be in proportion to its value as a symbol of Paris.
     
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