HR first thing tomoz.

Discussion in 'education & employment' started by space-tout, Oct 9, 2018.

  1. space-tout

    space-tout Our house, our house music.

    Hi good people of urban.

    I think I'm fucked at work. Some of you may remember a previous work thread asking for advice, I work in manufacturing and have knackered knees ACL/PCL bilateral, some time ago I developed plantar fasciitis bilaterally too, as you can imagine it's been a pain.
    I put in for flexible working and work agreed to drop a day so I now work 32hrs-4 days. The plantar is a work related issue due to the work boots I had always been given. 3 professionals have confirmed this. At no point have I thought of being hostile over this with my work as generally they are a good firm.
    First thing this morning I was told to get my tools and personal belongings as I was being moved 40 meters up the warehouse to work on heavier products? I protested and a middle manager came down and tried bully boy tactics, I explained that there were several people working with the same skillset as me? Why me I asked, his voice raised and at that point I interrupted him and said I am only willing to carry on the conversation with him in HR. He said OK he would call and arrange it.
    An hour later he came again and said they had given him carte blanch over what job I do. I muttered bullshit and walked away.
    I stewed for a bit and phoned HR myself and I'm not sure he had called at all. They were stern on the phone with me about first thing tomorrow to get my are arse there.
    I'll struggle to do this new job to spite the fuckers, I am on the 10mcg pain patch.

    Thing is, this middle manager is a manipulative prick who won't say boo to a goose out of work.
    He's also a bully, he has previous the lad in question crumbled mentally and had to leave.
    Am I fucked? Surely there is a discrimination element to this?

    Half of me wants to try and out this bloke, I have kept an audit trail of all the snide remarks about myself. This paper trail goes back 5-6 years.

    I'm sorry but that was part rant.
    How should I play this?

    Thank you in advance folks, I will update.
  2. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    Are you in a union?
    Sprocket., Pickman's model and MrSki like this.
  3. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat hmm

    first off, are you in a union? and if so, are you getting a rep or someone to accompany you to this meeting?

    remember that HR are not there to be 'on your side' - they are there to assist management to do their dirty work in a way that doesn't open them to being sued for anything.

    If this is a long term health condition, then legally it counts as a 'disability' under the equalities act (which incorporated the previous disability discrimination act) - more (from ACAS) on this here.

    Case law has held that you do need to make an employer aware of any disability to get legal protection from discrimination over it.

    Employers are required to make 'reasonable adjustments' - just what constitutes 'reasonable' will depend on the individual circumstances - I'm not all that expert in this. Intentionally moving you to a job you're less able to do (solely due to your disability) does sound more than a little bit dodgy, though.
  4. friedaweed

    friedaweed Sitting down for a wee

    Sprocket., Pickman's model and Ax^ like this.
  5. friendofdorothy

    friendofdorothy it is so much worse than Thatcherism now

    go to your doctor - get GP support. There are laws to protect the disabled at work.
  6. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull

    Sorry to hear about the twat of a manager. :(

    It depends on your situation - if you can find another job then the best bet in my view is to leave and move on, with hopefully better employers. But if you can't then involve a union (if there is one/you're a member), and/or lodge a grievance. Don't trust HR. Ultimately you have to defend yourself and ensure they don't fuck you over - but it sounds like there is a plan to manage you out to be honest, given moving you to a job less suited to your medical problems. :(
    Sprocket. and Pickman's model like this.
  7. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    All the stuff people have already said is even more relevant if your health issues are work related.

    And even if you're not already in a union, now might be the time to think seriously about joining one.

    Good luck.
  8. twentythreedom

    twentythreedom Patterdale Terrorist R.I.P.

    No advice but good luck, fingers crossed for you :)
  9. space-tout

    space-tout Our house, our house music.

    Thanks folks, no union for me.
    You know what the work place is like, I've had at least 7 lads approach me to tell me what he's done to them and how much of a dick he is, yet none will accompany me in the meeting! Guys I've worked with 15+ years.

    I'll just have to watch what I'm saying, but I only speak the truth. I do feel this is very unjust.

    I've been looking for a suitable job for ages, with one interview to show for my efforts.

    I do like my current job but the phrase 'managed out' sounds right.

    Let's see what the verbal dual brings. I'll have to use the disability angle, and the fact there are others better suited to the move.

    Thank you.
  10. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    Good luck tomorrow
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  11. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    if this is a formal meeting there's likely to be a note taker there, or notes taken. So I'd ask for a copy of any notes made. I see the acas helpline opens at 8, see Acas - Help & advice for employers and employees - Acas Mobile, call them if you can and they should be able to suggest some stuff.
  12. space-tout

    space-tout Our house, our house music.

    Thanks for all the info, I would never have thought to ask for the notes,,doh.

    I wonder if I can get them backdated as I've been in enough.

    I've been viewing acas and I'll have to re read in the morning.

    Cheers folks, I feel like the needy one atm, there's a battle on the horizon so I will update you as I get chance.

    Do gooders, the lot of ya.
    Pickman's model likes this.
  13. Duncan2

    Duncan2 Well-Known Member

    On the face of it -it does seem unlikely that HR would have given the middle-manager carte blanche,as he put it,since you had previously requested,and got,reasonable adjustments based on your long-term medical condition.The thing tomorrow at worst is an investigation not the disciplinary itself (if there is to be one)so you could I suppose ask HR whether in fact the middle-manager lied to you about what ,if anything,they said to him?Just trying to help really good luck tomorrow.
  14. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull

    Yes, you can make a subject access request under the new Data Protection Act. Advice on how to about this can be found on the Information Commissioner's site. Happy to advise you on how to do this by PM of course.

    Your data matters
    rich! likes this.
  15. Supine

    Supine Rough Like Badger

    No advice apart from play it cool and keep professional. Good luck.
  16. space-tout

    space-tout Our house, our house music.

    Well I never got chance to air my views. As soon as I arrived at work the phone just happened to ring with the foreman saying its HR for you.
    They said this manager has complete control of what I work on, and if he wants to move me onto heavier products it's just tough on me.
    I put the point across about the fact he had over 25 people to pick from. Tough.

    I gathered my things and left, I stopped at the docs on the way home and got a month sign off with anxiety, I can taste it, I've had mental health issues in the past. I was on effexor and mirtazapine, I was asked if I wanted medication again but it's awful.
    My head has been in a spin all day, I'm just going through my audit trail.
    My heads a bit too messy to be speaking to acas at the moment. I will update again when I've spoken to them.

    Thanks for the ears guys :(
    planetgeli and Pickman's model like this.
  17. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    :( Really hope the meds and being away from the place helps you. On the union thing I'd look at joining sharpish. Most unions have a qualifying period after you join before they will actively represent you. However you may well get informal advice, as well as access to their website etc. It may be that after your month off you are close to the qualifying point anyway. But all the best.
    space-tout likes this.
  18. Wilf

    Wilf Dances like a Christian

    ... oh, and do carry on posting, there are some really well informed posters on this stuff.
  19. space-tout

    space-tout Our house, our house music.

    Thanks ever so much guys, would anyone have a union name to try? I've not much spare money though, since dropping to a four day week.
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  20. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    liked for the liking, not for the shit day
    Wilf, space-tout and Badgers like this.
  21. andysays

    andysays Defiantly non-premium member

    Depends what industry you're in and whether there is a particular union for that industry.

    Or if there isn't an obvious choice, you could go for a general union like Unite
  22. planetgeli

    planetgeli There's no future in England's dreaming

    Liked for this bit. Paid I hope?

    Fuck 'em. Good luck.
  23. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat hmm


    they do know about your health condition, don't they?

    in terms of unions - broadly speaking you have the right to join any union you like, but

    is there a formally recognised union in your workplace? if so, that's usually the best one to join as there will be local reps already there.

    if not, TUC Worksmart page might help.

    Some unions have adjusted better than others to dealing with individual members in 'non union' workplaces (i.e. one where there isn't a recognised union / where there aren't enough members for it to form a proper branch

    And as others have said, be aware that most unions won't provide formal representation for an issue that started before you joined (in much the same way you'd not find an insurer who'd give you cover if you rang up about the fire you had yesterday) - although they may be able to provide some advice.

    Most unions are fairly switched on when it comes to things like disability discrimination - even if your local rep / steward isn't that expert, there will be someone at branch / region level who is

    Hope things get better soon

    As an afterthought, if someone does come along and mention 'constructive dismissal' (being put in a position where you've little choice but to resign) - my understanding of this is that you do at least have to try to resolve the situation through your employer's grievance procedure first.
    Duncan2 likes this.
  24. Sue

    Sue Well-Known Member

    Sorry to hear this space-tout. Complete fuckers. :mad::(
  25. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    This doesn’t feel right.

    Your employer has to make reasonable adjustments as recommended by occ health or reject them as impractical.

    Have you spoken to occ health what did the report say ?

  26. farmerbarleymow

    farmerbarleymow Seagull + Chips = Happy Seagull

    Sorry to hear that space-tout - what complete bastards. If you've told them about your underlying health conditions they're on thin ice. If you've told them have they done an OH for you, and did it contain recommendations about the type of work you can do (apologies if you've mentioned that upthread)?

    Focus on yourself for their next four weeks, and then gather you're thoughts on next steps.

    Keep posting if you feel up to it - we are rooting for you. :)
  27. Chilli.s

    Chilli.s changed the little words

    This does seem fishy, constructive dismissal being set up or some kind of discrimination.
  28. rubbershoes

    rubbershoes not the only raver in the village

    This, absolutely. HR are not the neutral professionals that they like to appear. They are there to do the will of management.

    If management want you out, it is up to HR to get you out

    But it's not over yet. Your injuries are a strong card. That the plantar may have been caused by work is no protection to you. But your injuries add up to disability within the meaning of the DDA, you have spme protection. having a disability doesn't mean people can't be sacked, but it does require the employer to jump through more hoops.

    Can you join a union online tonight? Others here know much more than me about union stuff
  29. Pickman's model

    Pickman's model Starry Wisdom

    I'd go unite space-tout based on what you're doing
  30. space-tout

    space-tout Our house, our house music.

    There was talk of a union years ago but 5 turned up and it wasn't enough people, that was years ago. I'll have check the employee handbook as there's something in there regarding unions, work have issued memos in the past that unions wouldn't be entertained, it's now a massive company and most are scared for their jobs. Oh they reminded me they offered me an adjustable stool previously, plaster over a bullet wound etc.
    I'll have to see what acas say to do.
    I am going to write a thorough chronological timeline of events and see where I'm up to.

    Discrimination/inequality/bullying. It's all there.
    Maybe I shouldn't say this but I felt so bad at work last year I bought a voice recorder. I was stolen from twice in two days, 2 packets of 30/500 Co codamol (I shouldn't have left them next to me on the bench but had an op in 2 days time so needed them) when I went to his office to report the thefts his first words were, if your legs are knackered there's no work for you here? What after 20 years. I probably shouldn't have recorded it but it's there on my laptop?
    farmerbarleymow, alex_ and Wilf like this.

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