How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie

[tufty79]

I know. I was trying to be funny

 

[Pickman's model]

I know. I was trying to be funny

((((tufty79))))

 

[tufty79]

I'd have got away with it if it weren't for you pickmans

 

[weltweit]

I'm genuinely glad that you've learnt something from Dale Carnegie.

But there are other and better wells to draw from.

Pray tell, what are these better wells?

I know from when I read it decades ago that criticism is often counter-productive.

A bit of reflection on how we interact with others is all for the good.

 

[weltweit]

Here he is round his Dads learning how to win friends and influence people in 2020. His hero is Warren Buffet and apparently Warren recommends it
..

At that age I had no clue who or what Warren Buffet was!

At least now if he ever gets argumentative with you or critical in any way, the book tells you to avoid arguments and that criticism is pointless, you can quote the book at him and hopefully it will stop him in his tracks I could probably quote which chapter it is in if you need it, my copy is somewhere about here.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

On a similar theme, I keep getting recommended The Seven Habits Of Highly Effective People, via various mailing lists and podcasts.

 

[weltweit]

On a similar theme, I keep getting recommended The Seven Habits Of Highly Effective People, via various mailing lists and podcasts.

I have heard of it, but haven't been tempted yet. There are only so many self help books I can manage at any point in time.

One year leaving for a foreign holiday I found this book in the airport WH Smith called How to develop products in half the time!" (something like that). It listed pages of mistakes companies and teams make when developing products. We / I had been making absolutely all of these mistakes That book was an eye opener!!

 

[weltweit]

I decided on the Art of War instead: "When an action is advantageous, take it; when an action is disadvantageous, refrain from it." Astounding thinkers, these ancients.

JimW have you read the Art of War? is it a book you would recommend?

I can remember I think it being quoted in another book I was reading, about. Specifically it was about an immovable boulder in your way, if you ran flat out into it you just injured yourself but if you dug away at the ground at its base eventually it would just roll out of the way. Does that ring a bell?

 

[JimW]

JimW have you read the Art of War? is it a book you would recommend?

I can remember I think it being quoted in another book I was reading, about. Specifically it was about an immovable boulder in your way, if you ran flat out into it you just injured yourself but if you dug away at the ground at its base eventually it would just roll out of the way. Does that ring a bell?

I have, but more from a China history point of view than expecting it to make me a master of cunning strategy. Can't say the boulder bit springs to mind but then it has been a while. I have a copy (Victor Mair's recent-ish translation) and had a look, it mentions a boulder but not quite as you remember:

The swiftness of a raging torrent can sweep away boulders; this is due to its configurative momentum. The swiftness of a diving raptor can tear its prey apart; this is due to its instinctive timing.
For this reason,
he who is skilled in battle builds up an overpowering configuration that he [releases] with instantaneous timing. The configuration that he constructs is like a fully drawn and cocked crossbow; the timing of his release is like pulling its trigger.

Then

Therefore,
the configuration of one who is skilled a t sending his subordinates into battle is like turning over a round boulder at the top of a mountain ten thousand feet high; it is all a matter of configuration.

Though Mair is a bit of an idiosyncratic old Sinologist and he makes a point of reworking some of the received versions.

 

[weltweit]

JimW it is possible I am misremembering which book was referenced.

 

[JimW]

JimW it is possible I am misremembering which book was referenced.

It might be because of Mair's translation, would have to look all through to check a big rock isn't mentioned elsewhere.

 

[weltweit]

It might be because of Mair's translation, would have to look all through to check a big rock isn't mentioned elsewhere.

The story as I recall it was that if you are faced with a large boulder blocking your path, trying to push it out of your way will just injure you, better is to remove small bits of ground at its base until you can roll the boulder out of the way.

And the application of this story to strategy is if you are faced with a massive competitor don't take them on head on because you will lose, rather nibble at the corners, attack small bits of their business first until you manage to unbalance them and ideally they will just "roll out of your way".

And this (I am probably muddling things a bit) but this nibble at the corners strategy was what Japanese company Komatsu took when they started to take little bits of business from the much larger American company Caterpillar. In the UK at least Caterpillar retreated from its purpose built UK factory with its own railway spur, (retreating to the USA) and Komatsu advanced taking over the exact same UK factory.

 

[weltweit]

Actually it might have been you nibble at the corners of the boulder rounding them off until they are rounded enough that you are able to roll the whole boulder out of your way.

 

[JimW]

Does sound a bit different, he really does mostly talk about armies and how to raise and use them.

 

[tufty79]

Does sound a bit different, he really does mostly talk about armies and how to raise and use them.

Does he ever use the phrase 'you can't eat an elephant all at once'?

 

[weltweit]

Does sound a bit different, he really does mostly talk about armies and how to raise and use them.

Makes sense, soldiers deploy their forces, business people employ theirs. I think a lot of business people like to imagine they are generals going into battle, I am not sure how well the comparison works though.

 

[JimW]

Does he ever use the phrase 'you can't eat an elephant all at once'?

Don't think so, will have to look again to be sure but think I'd remember.

 

[JimW]

Makes sense, soldiers deploy their forces, business people employ theirs. I think a lot of business people like to imagine they are generals going into battle, I am not sure how well the comparison works though.

Yes, think that was the appeal, same with the fad for samurai stuff like Book of Five Rings.

 

[Ted Striker]

I do audiobooks, and love a bit of popular self help - This and 7 habits are the household names of the genre, in a market where cream should rise (i.e. they're popular and lauded for a reason...)

Sadly, the narrator is so dull it renders these two specifically absolutely impenetrable.

Been in my Audible library for years, and every attempt to 'give it another go' is an uphill slog where I tap out iirc (last time) on either "strong connections with your family are crucial to success" or "my smile has earned me more than any degree". I love my family but can't ever be super close because we are so fundamentally different, and my resting bitch face is a frown - I genuinely wonder some days if I have any muscles in my cheek to smile (like everyone else seems to).

Thinking Fast And Slow is another. Utterly awful narrator

One day I'll read up on them on blinkist

I don't think any of them had the classic advice line (always delivered like a sage from the ages...) to strike fear in me: Be yourself/genuine.

No fucking thank you matey

.

 

[Buddy Bradley]

I don't think any of them had the classic advice line (always delivered like a sage from the ages...) to strike fear in me: Be yourself/genuine.

That was Polonius in Hamlet.

 

[JuanTwoThree]

Polonius in Hamlet

A pain in the arras

 

[Chz]

I'd always classed is as the sort of thing my friend's father would read. His standout title on the bookshelf was Miracle Power for Infinite Riches.

 

[weltweit]

I'd always classed is as the sort of thing my friend's father would read. His standout title on the bookshelf was Miracle Power for Infinite Riches.

And did he achieve infinite riches? I expect not ..

 

[weltweit]

..
Sadly, the narrator is so dull it renders these two specifically absolutely impenetrable.
..

Shame, I found the book a very easy read.

 

[xenon]

I've not read it and this all lends weight to the correctness of that omission.

It does sound like banal truisms embellished by shit metaphor and sold as wisdom for marketing dullards.

AKA business wank.

 

[weltweit]

I've not read it

I can tell ..

and this all lends weight to the correctness of that omission.

It does sound like banal truisms embellished by shit metaphor and sold as wisdom for marketing dullards.

AKA business wank.

 

[xenon]

Go on then, give me the most astounding thing you learned from it.

 

[tufty79]

My brain has been itching to remember the other mental link I have to this book that isn't terrorvision.

I just got it from the basement of my brain music word association repository!

 

[weltweit]

Go on then, give me the most astounding thing you learned from it.

I would have thought if it is as you claim "banal truisms embellished by shit metaphor and sold as wisdom for marketing dullards." you would be the one telling me things I should have learnt from it!

 

[JimW]

Just searched my copy of Art of War for elephants tufty79 and even after a vigorous shake not one fell out.