How to oppose this "think 25" shite?

[FridgeMagnet]

As a one-off perhaps ... but what about the grossed up outcomes? Surely there would be a level at which you would agree that it had become a problem on a scale which needed to be addressed? Or would you be content if there were pissed up 14 year olds all over the place? And stories like this were no longer considered news ...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8159813.stm

Yes, I want MORE DRUNK KIDS

What difference is hassling everyone for ID actually making to anything real? The US, where the regulations are much harsher, doesn't exactly seem to be a terrific model for teenage access to drugs and alcohol.

 

[detective-boy]

(tm) all "news"papers

And many communities ...

 

[detective-boy]

if that was the case then people suing coppers would sue the individual rather than the chief constable.

It is the case. They ARE responsible for their own actions. They CAN be sued individually ... but most lawyers don't bother because they are more likely to get the force to (a) roll over and (b) have the funds available to pay up compensation.

Just because there is vicarious liability does not mean that there is not also individual responsibility. And if an employee acts in excess of their employment there is no vicarious liability, just individual responsibility, even if they were at work at the time (e.g. if a parking attendant robbed a bank in between tickets, the council employing them would not be vicariously liable).

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Protest by loudly taking your trade somewhere more sensible ...

This. Remember that at an indepedant, if he refuses to serve you, it's *his* loss. Directly and personally.

So unless you really look under 18, he isn't going to refuse you.

On the other hand at a supermarket, the cashier still gets paid, so unless people *by the dozen* start dumping full weeks shopping at tills at peak times (preferably including customer cut stuff like specialist cheese that can't be resold) I can't see how you are going to protest against it.

Personally I don't see how 'think 25' would stop a single underage drinker more than 'think 21'.

 

[newme]

When I was working in places that sold alcohol on one occasion I accidently did sell to someone apparently under the age of 18, who frankly looked older than I did, I was only 19. I only found this out later after receiving a bollocking from the manager as apparently the parent of said 17 year old came in with the drink and went nuts. Frankly I was glad not to receive the ridiculous fine as it went no further than that. After that point I was bloody careful about asking people for ID as I damn well couldnt afford to get fined. Fucking stupid ramping it up to 21 and 25 but from the POV of the person on the til I know exactly why they just ask if they arent sure, its not even close to worth it on their end.

Conversely it doesnt stop me getting annoyed when Ive got ID'd and didnt have any on me lol. But I was sure not to take it out on the poor fucker on minimum wage behind the til.

 

[skyscraper101]

Unfortunately, given that this 'think 25' nonsense is pretty much a supermarket thing. I don't think they would give a monkeys if you left the shop on being asked for ID.

Would a supermarket checkout person really care for the loss of trade to the supermarket? I suspect the majority couldn't care less for anything than getting to the end of their minimum wage shift.

I doubt it would be the case in little off-licenses or corner shops but as we've established they're not really the flag bearers if this scheme.

 

[newme]

Would a supermarket checkout person really care for the loss of trade to the supermarket? I suspect the majority couldn't care less for anything than getting to the end of their minimum wage shift.

Yup, dead on, that and not getting financially bitchslapped themselves.
Infact if you do leave a full weeks shopping at the til and leave, it gives them a bit of a break from having to serve people while whoever is watching over the checkouts has to deal with getting it all removed.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Yup, dead on, that and not getting financially bitchslapped themselves.
Infact if you do leave a full weeks shopping at the til and leave, it gives them a bit of a break from having to serve people while whoever is watching over the checkouts has to deal with getting it all removed.

Well, you wouldn't want to have a go at the till staff anyway, it's not like it's their policy.

If it ever happened to me in a supermarket I would write letters of complaint to the company itself, and also probably to my MP - he's a Tory so would probably be sympathetic to the "nanny state" stuff, at least on something like this which is basically a NL policy and the Tories don't care about one way or the other.

 

[ymu]

nothing
I've done that twice now
fucktards
my hair is going grey

Nah, it works eventually. I used to pop into M&S and John Lewis regularly just so that I could leave a few hundred quids worth of stuff on the counter when they refused to accept a card instead of cash. Now they take cards and I like to think I played a small part in making them realise their idiocy a little sooner.

 

[ATOMIC SUPLEX]

There wasn't this drink thing when I was younger but I don't drive and I didn't get a passport until I was about 27. I think it's a bit harsh to make them the only form of ID. Odd because you need other forms of ID to get a passport/drivers license.

PS

I am in no way condoning ID cards.

 

[newme]

When I was at school I made a nice tidy profit reselling European Driving Licenses procured from the internet. Fuck knows if such a thing ever existed but it certainly worked.

 

[ymu]

Infact if you do leave a full weeks shopping at the til and leave, it gives them a bit of a break from having to serve people while whoever is watching over the checkouts has to deal with getting it all removed.

Aye, but the manager is still going to notice that trolley-fulls of stuff are having to go back to the shelves, and find staff who are free to replace it before it becomes unsellable. And they will pass this information on to HQ and policy will eventually change.

 

[newme]

Oh im not arguing against doing that at all, I was simply reinforcing someone elses point that the person on the actual checkout doesnt give a toss, lol.

 

[skyscraper101]

Basically, it's just arse covering.

The supermarkets I'm sure can well afford the potential loss of sales to a few 18-30 year olds kicking up a fuss. It no doubt saves them heaps on training the till monkeys anything more than to be able to say 'ID' to any youthful looking person.

Plus they'd have done some kind of risk assessment based on a 'what if' scenario and some kiddie being served alcohol and it all going to court. With the worst case scenario being stores shut down and licenses to sell alcohol revoked, they'd see it as worth their while having an official seven year buffer zone of 18-25 requiring ID checks.

Sad really. No wonder so many kids see it as so attractive getting hold of booze in their early teens and abusing it, it's made out to be some kind of forbidden fruit in this country. Whilst in many other parts of the world it's just something else you can buy from a corner shop or cold drinks machine and they don't have half of our underage drink problems.

 

[Oswaldtwistle]

Unfortunately, given that this 'think 25' nonsense is pretty much a supermarket thing. I don't think they would give a monkeys if you left the shop on being asked for ID.

Would a supermarket checkout person really care for the loss of trade to the supermarket?
.

No, and nor should they.

You would need armies of people dumping large amounts of shopping at the tills week after week at peak times (effectively taking the till out of action til someone cleared the belt)

I don't see enough anger about this to get enough people do that.

Doesn't affect me as I have a driving licence and just about look 25 now (I'm fucking 35, and no, I'm not flattered to look younger !)

But I understand only 1 in 8 under 25s have a driving licence-OK most people have passports but they can't be shoved in a wallet.

 

[ericjarvis]

I couldn't give a shit, they are just protecting themselves and thier staff from a potential fine and i carry my driving liscense in my wallet which is where i get either a card or my cash from so its hardly a big inconvienience.

If you want to have a go at some one have a go at whomever decided that individual staff are liable if an u18 is served.

dave

Both passport and driving license cost money to obtain. I have no problem with ID being demanded, but insisting on forms of ID that are expensive is out of order.

 

[ymu]

It's going to need some old people to show solidarity with their younger compatriots though. Young 'uns don't spend nearly enough in supermarkets for them to be effective by themselves. But old 'uns don't get asked for ID ...

Sainsbury's are using the wording "if you are fortunate enough to look under 25 ..." So, perhaps there's an excuse to get offended and dump your shopping if they ask you for ID and also if they don't.

 

[CyberRose]

Don't see what the problem is, we all managed to source alcohol when we were under age (ie didn't have the required ID), why should we have so much difficulty now we're grown ups? Just get someone else who actually looks old enough or has ID to buy it!

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Don't see what the problem is, we all managed to source alcohol when we were under age (ie didn't have the required ID), why should we have so much difficulty now we're grown ups? Just get someone else who actually looks old enough or has ID to buy it!

eh?

 

[CyberRose]

eh?

That really shouldn't need further explanation...

 

[ymu]

Just get someone else who actually looks old enough or has ID to buy it!

Huh? You miss being a teenager or summat?

 

[In Bloom]

Don't see what the problem is, we all managed to source alcohol when we were under age (ie didn't have the required ID), why should we have so much difficulty now we're grown ups? Just get someone else who actually looks old enough or has ID to buy it!

I actually had to do this in the Coop not so long ago. I wouldn't mind, but the guy behind the till knew me and actually suggested I do it (why ID me in the first place then?), I was mortified

 

[moon23]

This happened to me with some spiced cooking wine! The little half bottles you can get. I turned the tables and asked the person behind the till for ID to prove they were older enough to serve me. Once ID cards are in they will become the only valid form of ID accepted, although of course they would still be 'voluntary.'will be challenge 30 soon

 

[likesfish]

90% of a and e visits on a saturday night are alcohol related.
loads of brits over 18 can't hadle there drink.

 

[AverageJoe]

or spell

*pedantic mode*

 

[detective-boy]

Odd because you need other forms of ID to get a passport/drivers license.

Which, in the absence of biometrics, is where the system falls down ... because it is not difficult at all to gather together the bits and pieces you need for a passport application ... and the bit that in the olden days meant that some establishment figure confirmed you were you and they had known you for ages has long since been a total complete and utter waste of time.

 

[detective-boy]

OK most people have passports but they can't be shoved in a wallet.

And it's not really a wise move to encourage people to take their most reliable identification document, something which has a significant criminal value, out on the razz with them every week, almost guaranteeing a massive rise in lost and stolen passports ...

 

[detective-boy]

I turned the tables and asked the person behind the till for ID to prove they were older enough to serve me.

That would be quite amusing ... you would be committing a criminal offence if you encouraged an under age person to sell you alcohol and so exactly the same defence (taking all reasonable steps to make sure that you established they were old enough) comes into play. And asking a shop assistant that appears to be under 18 for proof of age (or asking them to call an older member of staff to complete the sale) would not only be a perfectly reasonable thing to do but would actually be something we should all be encouraged to do ...

 

[tangerinedream]

I once didn't get served and I asked to see the manager as I am clearly over the legal age and had a load of stuff that although not 'official' id was obviously evidence of my age (such as the stuff in my bag, my work id, the way I was dressed, my thinning (attractively wise) hair etc etc...

The manager served me and said the woman behind the till was a nightmare as she was terrified of getting in trouble so was not serving anyone who was under pensionable age on the basis of 'you can't be too certain'

 

[Quest]

90% of a and e visits on a saturday night are alcohol related.
loads of brits over 18 can't handle their drink.

..nor can the little fucktards under 18.