how the fuck can she be a judge?

[shygirl]

The jury were directed/encouraged to find the defendant not guilty, but, perversely, he was exonerated of some charges but found guilty on others. The reaction in the court room on the day was of incredulity, including on the part of the judge. The following is from the daily mail:

teachers at the school said the pupil was a "proven liar".
Librarian Marion King told Inner London Crown Court: "As she got older she got very cocky and thought everybody fancied her.

"She went around saying 'I can do what I like, I'm special'."

Mrs King told jurors the schoolgirl had pretended to be involved in a car accident to get out of PE classes.

She turned up to school with a bandage around her chest in the elaborate charade.

Teachers eventually discovered from her mother that there had been no accident.

Mrs King said: "She said doctors found a problem with her heart. I said 'Oh my God are you OK?'

"She said she couldn't do PE anymore. She had bandages all around her chest and said she had a tube put inside. She unwrapped her bandage and had a bloody line around three inches long."

She said she was moved to tears by the story, but later discovered it was a lie.

She said: "She came into my office and I said 'What is going on?'.

"She said: 'I lie - that's what I do'.

"She couldn't seem to grasp what she had done. It was shocking to me."

Mrs King said other pupils joked that the schoolgirl "stalked" Kerner.

She said: "I thought Mr Kerner ought to be very wary of her. I think she had a crush on him and I said he needed to be careful because I think she has a massive crush on you.

"A couple of students commented on it. They said she is stalking him.

"I think she is very manipulative. She lied to me."

When she was contacted by police, Mrs King said she thought the allegations were "rubbish" and branded the pupil a "psychopathic liar".

She said: "You have got a girl who is a proven liar saying unbelievable lies.

"I think she's a very sick girl. I think there is something wrong with her."

PE teacher Les Ainsworth said the schoolgirl showed "no remorse" when she was caught out lying.

He said: "She was an attention seeker. Not only from her peers but from her teachers as well."

He added: "When she came into the office I found her manipulative and quite tactile."

The PE teacher said he was told by two pupils in around May 2012 that the schoolgirl had told people she was having a relationship with Kerner.

He chose to have a word with Kerner about the claims, but did not report it higher, jurors heard.

Pressed on why he did not take the matter higher, he said: "My decision at that time was to have a word with Stuart."



Could this be a miscarriage of justice?

 

[shygirl]

The judge was absolutely wrong to suggest grooming on the part of the pupil

 

[seventh bullet]

Because like it or not, we do live in a world were paediatricians get hounded out of their own homes by people who think they are paedophiles...

That never happened.

It's never gonna die this one, is it?

 

[bemused]

Could this be a miscarriage of justice?

He had sex with a pupil, he's guilty.

 

[weepiper]

lots of victim blaming from the Daily Mail

Even liars can be taken advantage of by older men.

 

[friedaweed]

*Puts pliers to one side for a moment

If he denied all counts where does the ridiculous idea that he did this as a result of feeling vulnerable because of his wife's miscarriage come from

Is this a conclusion that the judge came to or did he admit having sex with her and use that as an excuse?

 

[friedaweed]

The court has heard the girl had intimate knowledge of Kerner's life - including details about the layout of his home, his birthday and personal information about his wife - though the accused is said to have told police he had never swapped personal details with her.

"The Crown state that it's inconceivable that all these details could be the product of a teenage fantasy," prosecutor Warwick Tatford told the court.

 

[Gromit]

He had sex with a pupil, he's guilty.

Thats not being disputed. What is being disputed is whether the circumstances are mitigating and the amount of legal punishment that should be mitigated as a result.

 

[frogwoman]

There are always teenagers who lie and make shit up, usually because they are messed up in the head, often as a result of past abuse or an otherwise unstable home/personal situation, not an excuse for 44 year old men to fuck them for 18 months. His defence is a disgrace.

 

[Gromit]

*Puts pliers to one side for a moment

If he denied all counts where does the ridiculous idea that he did this as a result of feeling vulnerable because of his wife's miscarriage come from

Is this a conclusion that the judge came to or did he admit having sex with her and use that as an excuse?

Not guilty by reason of insanity isn't that they didn't do it but that they weren't mentally competent at time to be held accountable for their actions.
Its the way they work the law rather than 'Guilty but it wasn't my fault guvnor'.
Same kind of angle here. He wasn't denying having sex but that he did not use his position of trust to obtain the sex.

 

[friedaweed]

Mr Tatford said the girl would testify that on one afternoon in February 2012, when she should have been in class, the then-16-year-old was on the other side of the school losing her virginity.

"She was having sex with Mr Kerner in another part of the school," he said.

Some 90 minutes later, someone allegedly used Mr Kerner's computer login details to change the official absentee record to suggest the girl had been present in class, the court was told.

Prosecutors allege it was done by the teacher himself, doctoring records to cover up an illicit sexual encounter.

 

[Vintage Paw]

If all these things about the girl are true, she's a fantasist and clearly very troubled and vulnerable. Indeed, she has been described as vulnerable.

NONE of that justifies or excuses a man who should know better, who is in a position of authority, using his wife's miscarriage as an excuse to begin or continue any kind of sexual relationship with the girl. NONE of it excuses the judge's remarks, which, as we know in a society that blames girls and women for owning sexual organs that men simply must stick their dicks into, were harmful and willfully stupid. What possible good could come out of her comments? Contrast that with how much harm can be caused - not just to the girl, but to the plight of girls and women everywhere who have to struggle through a fucking quagmire of blaming shit when they're already broken.

 

[frogwoman]

The jury were directed/encouraged to find the defendant not guilty, but, perversely, he was exonerated of some charges but found guilty on others. The reaction in the court room on the day was of incredulity, including on the part of the judge. The following is from the daily mail:

teachers at the school said the pupil was a "proven liar".
Librarian Marion King told Inner London Crown Court: "As she got older she got very cocky and thought everybody fancied her.

"She went around saying 'I can do what I like, I'm special'."

Mrs King told jurors the schoolgirl had pretended to be involved in a car accident to get out of PE classes.

She turned up to school with a bandage around her chest in the elaborate charade.

Teachers eventually discovered from her mother that there had been no accident.

Mrs King said: "She said doctors found a problem with her heart. I said 'Oh my God are you OK?'

"She said she couldn't do PE anymore. She had bandages all around her chest and said she had a tube put inside. She unwrapped her bandage and had a bloody line around three inches long."

She said she was moved to tears by the story, but later discovered it was a lie.

She said: "She came into my office and I said 'What is going on?'.

"She said: 'I lie - that's what I do'.

"She couldn't seem to grasp what she had done. It was shocking to me."

Mrs King said other pupils joked that the schoolgirl "stalked" Kerner.

She said: "I thought Mr Kerner ought to be very wary of her. I think she had a crush on him and I said he needed to be careful because I think she has a massive crush on you.

"A couple of students commented on it. They said she is stalking him.

"I think she is very manipulative. She lied to me."

When she was contacted by police, Mrs King said she thought the allegations were "rubbish" and branded the pupil a "psychopathic liar".

She said: "You have got a girl who is a proven liar saying unbelievable lies.

"I think she's a very sick girl. I think there is something wrong with her."

PE teacher Les Ainsworth said the schoolgirl showed "no remorse" when she was caught out lying.

He said: "She was an attention seeker. Not only from her peers but from her teachers as well."

He added: "When she came into the office I found her manipulative and quite tactile."

The PE teacher said he was told by two pupils in around May 2012 that the schoolgirl had told people she was having a relationship with Kerner.

He chose to have a word with Kerner about the claims, but did not report it higher, jurors heard.

Pressed on why he did not take the matter higher, he said: "My decision at that time was to have a word with Stuart."



Could this be a miscarriage of justice?

I lied quite a few times to get out of pe.

The teacher was a 44 year old man in a position of power over the girl. And people wonder why this shit keeps happening again and again, why Rochdale happened and why saville got away with it so long, because the victims were assumed to be a bad lot who were making shit up.

The judge's comments are a disgrace and she should be struck off.

 

[Gromit]

Even liars can be taken advantage of by older men.

Even old men can be taken advantage of by liars.

 

[friedaweed]

Not guilty by reason of insanity isn't that they didn't do it but that they weren't mentally competent at time to be held accountable for their actions.
Its the way they work the law rather than 'Guilty but it wasn't my fault guvnor'.
Same kind of angle here. He wasn't denying having sex but that he did not use his position of trust to obtain the sex.

Yeah I understand that. Just wasn't sure where that idea/defense (Not that it is one) came from. Was it an excuse he's put up in his defense or was it a conclusion that had been come to in his defense by the judge or his defense both of which I can't seem to differentiate from atm. Just a bit confused. Maybe I'm not looking at the right info.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Even old men can be taken advantage of by liars.

HAHAHAHAHAHA it's funny because young blonde women are manipulative and obsessed with money and will use their bodies to get what they want and it's all their fault and what better time to explain this self-evident fact than in a thread that is discussing how our society regularly blames young female victims of sexual crime HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

[Gromit]

I lied quite a few times to get out of pe.

The teacher was a 44 year old man in a position of power over the girl. And people wonder why this shit keeps happening again and again, why Rochdale happened and why saville got away with it so long, because the victims were assumed to be a bad lot who were making shit up.

The judge's comments are a disgrace and she should be struck off.

No denying that its shit the way a (fucking) lot of victims get villanized by people and the system etc. to engineer miscarriages of justice.
It also doesn't mean that not a single one of them wasn't a really 'bad un' capable of manipulating a average everyday person into doing wrong. its not a complete impossibility.

 

[Orang Utan]

Oh fuck off

 

[Gromit]

HAHAHAHAHAHA it's funny because young blonde women are manipulative and obsessed with money and will use their bodies to get what they want and it's all their fault and what better time to explain this self-evident fact than in a thread that is discussing how our society regularly blames young female victims of sexual crime HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Okay maybe not the best example to make my point because of that potential inference.

How about this one instead:

http://www.zdnet.com/article/auscert-2013-nigerian-scam-victim-tells-her-story/

 

[weepiper]

How about not, Gromit. Just how about not.

 

[toggle]

Maybe, maybe not. All I'm pointing out is that the judged may have felt it necessary to make things clear for fear that it might, somewhere.

or maybe the judge was, as many others in the judicial system are, comfortable with accusing the victim of an abuser of being the underlying cause of her abuse.

This isn't a one off situation, all you need to do is look at the recent cases where there have been reports of hundreds of children being groomed to see how quickly authority figures seek to blame female children for being victims of abuse and claim they were able to make adult decisions to be complicit in that abuse. its a culture that seeks to find any possible way to shift blame for sexual abuse from the abuser onto the victim.

 

[toggle]

Could this be a miscarriage of justice?

or an abuser who deliberately picked a victim whose allegations would not be believed.

 

[Wilf]

How about not, Gromit. Just how about not.

Yes, just fuck off gromit.

Anyway, attorney general reviewing it:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-30824569

The 18 month duration really is the worst bit of this for me. Having sex with a girl in his care at 15/16 (probably was 15 but that particular charge was found not guilty) warrants something custodial, but having a long term abusive and illegal sexual relationship MUST result in time.

 

[toggle]

The jury were directed/encouraged to find the defendant not guilty, but, perversely, he was exonerated of some charges but found guilty on others. The reaction in the court room on the day was of incredulity, including on the part of the judge. The following is from the daily mail:

teachers at the school said the pupil was a "proven liar".
Librarian Marion King told Inner London Crown Court: "As she got older she got very cocky and thought everybody fancied her.

"She went around saying 'I can do what I like, I'm special'."

Mrs King told jurors the schoolgirl had pretended to be involved in a car accident to get out of PE classes.

She turned up to school with a bandage around her chest in the elaborate charade.

Teachers eventually discovered from her mother that there had been no accident.

Mrs King said: "She said doctors found a problem with her heart. I said 'Oh my God are you OK?'

"She said she couldn't do PE anymore. She had bandages all around her chest and said she had a tube put inside. She unwrapped her bandage and had a bloody line around three inches long."

She said she was moved to tears by the story, but later discovered it was a lie.

She said: "She came into my office and I said 'What is going on?'.

"She said: 'I lie - that's what I do'.

"She couldn't seem to grasp what she had done. It was shocking to me."

Mrs King said other pupils joked that the schoolgirl "stalked" Kerner.

She said: "I thought Mr Kerner ought to be very wary of her. I think she had a crush on him and I said he needed to be careful because I think she has a massive crush on you.

"A couple of students commented on it. They said she is stalking him.

"I think she is very manipulative. She lied to me."

When she was contacted by police, Mrs King said she thought the allegations were "rubbish" and branded the pupil a "psychopathic liar".

She said: "You have got a girl who is a proven liar saying unbelievable lies.

"I think she's a very sick girl. I think there is something wrong with her."

PE teacher Les Ainsworth said the schoolgirl showed "no remorse" when she was caught out lying.

He said: "She was an attention seeker. Not only from her peers but from her teachers as well."

He added: "When she came into the office I found her manipulative and quite tactile."

The PE teacher said he was told by two pupils in around May 2012 that the schoolgirl had told people she was having a relationship with Kerner.

He chose to have a word with Kerner about the claims, but did not report it higher, jurors heard.

Pressed on why he did not take the matter higher, he said: "My decision at that time was to have a word with Stuart."



Could this be a miscarriage of justice?

one other thing, Orang Utan

was it you who discussed victim blaming by other students toward a girl who was being sexually exploited? what i'm getting at is that there is a lot of the victim blaming in this that was supposed to have come from other girls that knew the victim. The impression i got from you is that you believed girls will take a hugely conservative attitude towards situations like this, so victim blaming from them shoudln't really be considered valid evidence of what the girl was like/

 

[Orang Utan]

Yes, I was shocked that girls in the year below were more judgmental of the victim than the boys who had exploited her, even campaigning to have their exclusion reversed and the girl punished FFS

 

[toggle]

Yes, I was shocked that girls in the year below were more judgmental of the victim than the boys who had exploited her, even campaigning to have their exclusion reversed and the girl punished FFS

thanks.

 

[Thimble Queen]

The use of the word manipulative to describe the girl is so fucking wrong. Fuck that judge.

 

[spanglechick]

Gromit if you worked in a school, can you foresee any situation at all, precipitated by any mental state whatsoever (and we're not talking a major psych event - he was able to keep up his job as deputy head of one of the largest schools in london) - whereby you would have sex, even once with a notoriously vulnerable and unpredictable child who has a crush on you?

cos i work with kids like that, and for me - and I am sure, the massive majority of my colleagues, barring one or two fucking nonces-in-hiding I may have inadvertently worked with in my career - it's a no-brainer.

At what point does "i'm experiencing severe personal stress" become: "I will fuck a child in my care"? I expect some of the traumas related to infertility I've experienced over the last while are pretty comparable to a complicated pregnancy and miscarriage. I've also had kids fixate on me in inappropriate ways, that have been referred to - jokingly - as stalking. And yet it no more occurred to me to fuck a child in my care than it would to stab one with a knife. It's unthinkable. It's not a remotely difficult decision.

The laws on sex-offending are different for teachers. Her being sixteen is more or less irrelevant because it's an abuse of power. Like other forms of noncing. This judge's remarks are a disgrace and hopefully will be enough to trigger a sentencing review. He fucked a child in his care. Many times. For months and months. Jail the cunt.

 

[Vintage Paw]

Yes, I was shocked that girls in the year below were more judgmental of the victim than the boys who had exploited her, even campaigning to have their exclusion reversed and the girl punished FFS

This happens a lot (not just cases like this but in the way kids/teens interact). Girls are taught to compete with each other, they are taught to shame each other for all sorts of behaviours. Just like the working class are pitted against each other to distract from the real enemy. It's a classic symptom of how power divides people who don't have it.

 

[Wilf]

He fucked a child in his care. Many times. For months and months. Jail the cunt.

yep - and it should have been that straightforward for the judge. People of all ages can be 'manipulative', but being in his 40s and a teacher he had enough life experience to both see and resist that. Most of all, if she was 'manipulative' it's irrelevant - what this should be about are the choices he made.