How much land would you need to be semi-self sufficient

[Brainaddict]

I've heard people argue fairly convincingly that you can reduce the land you need using permaculture 'forest garden' techniques. I have to admit I've never seen independent assessments of the effectiveness of that though - just the figures of the permaculture advocates.

 

[DaRealSpoon]

And as soon as you do get some of your own land you'll realise that the best use of that book is for fuel

Well I'm not disagreeing with your experience, but I've met people who have used that book in practice and swear by it.

Granted, not all of it is going to be spot on/work for all/ or whatever, but many of the core principles are pretty sound.

Couldn't give a toss whether he had an 'army of helpers'. Guy might be a twat, dunno.. never met him. It's the content of the book that interests me

 

[madzone]

Are you pleased you did it Madzone?

Yes, I am. It costs me every spare penny and means me and the ex are tied together a bit but I panic at the thought of losing it. It's an ace way of life but we have 5 acres and there's no way we could be self sufficient on it. John Seymour was extremely lucky with his army of students and was doing it in a time when it was much simpler.

 

[madzone]

Well I'm not disagreeing with your experiance, but I've met people who have used that book in practice and swear by it.

Granted, not all of it is going to be spot on/work for all/ or whatever, but many of the core principles are pretty sound.

Couldn't give a toss whether he had an 'army of helpers'. Guy might be a twat, dunno.. never met him. It's the content of the book that interests me

Talk to me when you've tried it

Just to add, I'd like to meet people who've managed to be completely self sufficient on 5 acres in the 21st century. How do they pay the mortgage? Do they grow their own tea and coffee? Where do their clothes come from? It's not possible to be self sufficent on 5 acres all yer round, anyone who says they are is misleading you.

 

[Crispy]

Except when all you have is upland grazing that won't take a plough or sustain crops.

Well yes, but don't intend to ever build my house on upland grazing

 

[Crispy]

I've heard people argue fairly convincingly that you can reduce the land you need using permaculture 'forest garden' techniques. I have to admit I've never seen independent assessments of the effectiveness of that though - just the figures of the permaculture advocates.

Good point. I'd like to see it verified too...

 

[boskysquelch]

I've heard people argue fairly convincingly that you can reduce the land you need using permaculture 'forest garden' techniques. I have to admit I've never seen independent assessments of the effectiveness of that though - just the figures of the permaculture advocates.

hint : Martin Crawford &/or Defra

demographers & statisticians WILL starve.

 

[DaRealSpoon]

Talk to me when you've tried it

Just to add, I'd like to meet people who've managed to be completely self sufficient on 5 acres in the 21st century. How do they pay the mortgage? Do they grow their own tea and coffee? Where do their clothes come from? It's not possible to be self sufficent on 5 acres all yer round, anyone who says they are is misleading you.

I'll talk to you about it now thanks very much. Just because I haven't 'tried it myself' doesn't mean I'm clueless

so ner!

E2a - Several possibilitie to the things you've mentioned tho ennit. Perhaps they've paid off their mortgage, through previous jobs. Perhaps they are excellent machinists and spin their own yarn hahaha.

And tea and coffee, well that goes back to the point I made about NEED, as opposed to WANT etc etc


btw - I do need tea

 

[psycherelic]

That sounds like being fully self sufficient to me, surely it makes more sense just to see how self suffcient you can mange at the moment then gradually increase over time.

 

[Crispy]

Is this interesting?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so..._KJ77hm5lbNb66y3w&sig2=Fz_cZrzssShOLfbMUj3h6A

 

[gentlegreen]

And tea and coffee, well that goes back to the point I made about NEED, as opposed to WANT etc etc


btw - I do need tea

My tea costs me approx £16.67 a month. (best not to explore the energy that goes into getting it to me)

Acorn and dandelion coffee just won't do as a substitute.

 

[Brainaddict]

hint : Martin Crawford &/or Defra

demographers & statisticians WILL starve.

This? http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/trustinf.html

Looks an interesting project but an independent assessment would require people other than the planters of the garden/promoters of the idea to be measuring the productivity. They would have to have no financial/propaganda interest in the success of the idea. Perhaps it's been done - if so I'd love a link to it.

 

[psycherelic]

Is this interesting?

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&so..._KJ77hm5lbNb66y3w&sig2=Fz_cZrzssShOLfbMUj3h6A

I don't understand it, is it just the amount of land you'd need to produce enough of each of the foods to provide for one person's energy requirements for a year?

 

[Crispy]

I don't understand it, is it just the amount of land you'd need to produce enough of each of the foods to provide for one person's energy requirements for a year?

yes. that's all it is. still interesting for this thread, no?

 

[gentlegreen]

Looks like I'll be OK if I learn to make bread from potatoes.

Keeping seed is problematic though ...

 

[psycherelic]

yes. that's all it is. still interesting for this thread, no?

Ok I do understand, yes its sort of interesting, but I don't like it because I'm not a massive fan of spuds and it looks like we should be eating nothing else.

 

[Crispy]

well they are a damn good way of getting maximum carbs from minimum land. You can grow stuff round them too, which is neat.

 

[Brainaddict]

I thought potatoes were the least healthy carb source though?

 

[dirtyfruit]

The big question with all this is how much of your present lifestyle you are willing to do away with. It's possible to live a lot more frugaly but it would be a huge shock for most people to suddenly swap to a just above subsistance life

 

[Crispy]

I thought potatoes were the least healthy carb source though?

really? I'm not saying eat only potatoes, mind. that would be a bit boring and yes unhealthy, but what make spuds worse than other carbs?

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

You wouldn't actually need much for woodland. Just post a sign up at the general store saying you'll cut down people's trees just for the fire wood you'd get out of it and you're set. You would, however, need some means of hauling fire wood.

 

[Brainaddict]

really? I'm not saying eat only potatoes, mind. that would be a bit boring and yes unhealthy, but what make spuds worse than other carbs?

They're just high in starch but not much else I think. Wholegrains have a lot more nutrition in them. They're fine as part of a mixed diet obviously but maybe not as the main base of your diet.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Sod self-sufficiency. If I could afford eleven acres of land it'd be kitted out with a narrow gauge railway and criss-crossed with private roads on which I could take my collection of cars out for a play when the mood took me.

11 acres isn't that expensive. You can get 11 acres here for <$25K (maybe even with a house already on it).

 

[dirtyfruit]

They're just high in starch but not much else I think. Wholegrains have a lot more nutrition in them. They're fine as part of a mixed diet obviously but maybe not as the main base of your diet.

What uses the least energy, water and nutrients for the most energy you can get out? Hmm. I'm sure I've been told but can't remember. Not soya, maybe rice?

 

[Crispy]

What uses the least energy, water and nutrients for the most energy you can get out? Hmm. I'm sure I've been told but can't remember. Not soya, maybe rice?

Probably a vat of some sort of GM algae. yummy.

 

[Maggot]

What uses the least energy, water and nutrients for the most energy you can get out? Hmm. I'm sure I've been told but can't remember. Not soya, maybe rice?

Spaghetti trees.

 

[dirtyfruit]

Probably a vat of some sort of GM algae. yummy.

It'll bloddy happen as well. On a mass scale too when the need arises.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

What uses the least energy, water and nutrients for the most energy you can get out? Hmm. I'm sure I've been told but can't remember. Not soya, maybe rice?

I don't have any data to back me up, but I suspect you could get a lot of food value from growing the "three sisters": corn, beans, and squash.

 

[dirtyfruit]

Spaghetti trees.

 

[Yuwipi Woman]

Spaghetti trees.

Spaghetti doesn't grow on trees! It grows on vines:

http://www.fabulousfoods.com/index....troller=article&category_id=224&article=19943