How many possible futures are there?

[The Groke]

if you mean in scientific terms, then that's an interesting discussion. But if you mean in pseudo intellectual hippy bollocks terms, then it's not.

guess which one it is.......

 

[snadge]

Max, in what respect do you mean? Because if you mean in scientific terms, then that's an interesting discussion. But if you mean in pseudo intellectual hippy bollocks terms, then it's not.

true!

Max scientific??? you what?

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

Peter Van Inwagen defined 'determinism' as the state of affairs when there is only one possible future

so how many possible futures are there? is the world only going to proceed in one direction, or is there an open future with multiple possibilities?


or maybe there are zero possible futures

One. The one that's coming.

 

[snadge]

One. The one that's coming.

which has infinite possibilities.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

which has infinite possibilities.

No. Only one is coming.

 

[cliche guevara]

No. Only one is coming.

As we perceive it, yes. But that doesn't mean that others aren't possible.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

As we perceive it, yes. But that doesn't mean that others aren't possible.

Only one will come. What else matters?

 

[cliche guevara]

Only one will come. What else matters?

For normal intents and purposes, nothing else matters. But don't you think that it's interesting to explore the unknown, and find out how the universe works? If not, then one future will suffice for your needs, but I like to know about the possibility of others.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

For normal intents and purposes, nothing else matters. But don't you think that it's interesting to explore the unknown, and find out how the universe works? If not, then one future will suffice for your needs, but I like to know about the possibility of others.

In my cosmology, there is one future, the one that is coming.

 

[cliche guevara]

In my cosmology, there is one future, the one that is coming.

The point is that that isn't the only possible future. There are schools of thought that say that other potential futures being played out all the time.

 

[snadge]

In my cosmology, there is one future, the one that is coming.

So you are a slave to cause and effect, if you knew, through your own actions that that future that you have caused for yourself is coming and it's not very nice, would you not try and change that future of yours by action..

BTW every sentient being's future is different.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

So you are a slave to cause and effect, if you knew, through your own actions that that future that you have caused for yourself is coming and it's not very nice, would you not try and change that future of yours by action...

Yeah. I'm a slave to cause and effect. The second bit assumes that change can happen.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

BTW every sentient being's future is different.

Of course each person has a different future coming. But for each person, the one that's coming, is the one that's coming.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

The point is that that isn't the only possible future. There are schools of thought that say that other potential futures being played out all the time.

In parallel universes, like?

 

[snadge]

In parallel universes, like?

sometimes in this universe....

 

[snadge]

But for each person, the one that's coming, is the one that's coming.

no, you are wrong, the future is malleable by effect.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

no, you are wrong, the future is malleable by effect.

That's good. You believe what you believe, and I'll believe what I believe.

 

[snadge]

Of course each person has a different future coming. But for each person, the one that's coming, is the one that's coming.

this latter statement now concedes that there is more than one future which contradicts your 1st statement.

One. The one that's coming.

 

[Johnny Canuck3]

this latter statement now concedes that there is more than one future which contradicts your 1st statement.

I was talking about the future. If you want to descend into a semantics quibble, you'll have to go without me.

 

[max_freakout]

Max, in what respect do you mean? Because if you mean in scientific terms, then that's an interesting discussion. But if you mean in pseudo intellectual hippy bollocks terms, then it's not.

there is no ambiguity to what i am asking, in actual terms, how many possible futures are there?


either zero, one, or more than one

 

[max_freakout]

no, i was questioning this bit -



maybe the future has already become the past

yes i understood what you were asking, and in response, i am not sure that the future hasnt already become the past

it is nice and convenient to 'believe' in the single block-universe with one single future, but i am not sure about it

 

[max_freakout]

There is only one possible future, it is just indeterminate at the moment.

if there is only one possible future, how can it possibly be indeterminate?


by 'indeterminate' do you mean unknowable to humans?

 

[max_freakout]

As far as I understand Hugh Everett III, which is to say not at all, there are many possible futures (as many as there are quantum events at which the possibilities branch off), and all of them will happen.

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/qm-everett/

right, that is very similar to David Lewis' idea of the multitude of possible worlds, every eventuality will happen 'somewhere'

 

[max_freakout]

only one

then determinism is true?

 

[max_freakout]

One. The one that's coming.

i agree, but this implies determinism which is quite terrifying and counter-intuitive

where does your free-will fit into the single possible future?

 

[The Groke]

then determinism is true?

*sigh*

nothing is true, remember max?

 

[max_freakout]

nothing is true

but people are suggesting that there is only one possible future, which seems to imply determinism (at least according to Van Inwagen's definition of determinism)

 

[snadge]

max, scientific.... no chance.....

 

[max_freakout]

science is just another word for 'naivety'

because knowledge is impossible

 

[The Groke]

science is just another word for 'naivety'

Thanks for that max.


I finally know you are trolling now.