How many "anarchists" are actually just vacuous drop-outs?

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Aye, I tell anybody who shows up canvassing at mine to fuck off. As if people can't make up their minds without some party hack gibbering at them.

Smaller parties need to canvass more to make up for the fact that larger parties have far better "brand awareness" (for want of a better way of putting it)

I happen to door knock beyond just election times. Again, there is a catch 22 here - if parties canvass they are annoying gibbering hacks. If they dont they are aloof and dont care what people think.

 

[butchersapron]

Ring more than one bell. Establish a contact in every block. This is basic canvassing training.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

[GarfieldLeChat]s

"that anarchist who fail to live to some exacting standard which you assume they should"

I havent expressed any "exacting" standard.

"if so consdiering the low level action of an anarchist compared to say an illegal war the state murder (forced sucide, driven to sucide you decide which fits best about kelly...) the interment of peoples with out trial the abolishintion of privacy, social value and implamentation of a 'big brother' state."

Give me the low level anarchist any time. Kelly was very likely murdered btw.

"how would you say that chimes with a common mandate from the masses to run things?" not at all, but plenty of people either vote for parties that perpurate this crap or allow others to decide this reactionary course by not voting at all.

"... would you not consider that all party politcal actions to be fake they say we're doign this for your own good but in reailty are doign it for their own good"

In many cases yes, but I wouldnt think any person who aspired to great political power or office would be well advised to join my party

"comparitive magnitiude i'd clean your own house befroe attendign to others..."

Always good advice but it is often "anarchists" who jeer at (say) Greens while doing (as most people who have voted here pupport) bugger all themselves.

 

[butchersapron]

If you nutters want a kelly was murdered thread - fuck off that way --->>>

Nutters always find their own level.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

If you nutters want a kelly was murdered thread - fuck off that way --->>>

Nutters always find their own level.

could you maybe contribute tot he thread orgo to bed and let the adults talk without your constant wittering, there's a good child...

 

[butchersapron]

Done, see above. Your own contribution is worthless, pointless and what?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

[GarfieldLeChat]s

"that anarchist who fail to live to some exacting standard which you assume they should"

I havent expressed any "exacting" standard.

ow do you define real and fake then? surely one must qualify in order to be placed into either camp??

"if so consdiering the low level action of an anarchist compared to say an illegal war the state murder (forced sucide, driven to sucide you decide which fits best about kelly...) the interment of peoples with out trial the abolishintion of privacy, social value and implamentation of a 'big brother' state."

Give me the low level anarchist any time. Kelly was very likely murdered btw.

well we don't know he was some only suspect he was..., however you are canvassing inside of a party poltical system you have adopted their mantel and as such are just as tainted as they are regardless of the well meaningness of the greens over say the conservatives...

"how would you say that chimes with a common mandate from the masses to run things?" not at all, but plenty of people either vote for parties that perpurate this crap or allow others to decide this reactionary course by not voting at all.

"... would you not consider that all party politcal actions to be fake they say we're doign this for your own good but in reailty are doign it for their own good"

In many cases yes, but I wouldnt think any person who aspired to great political power or office would be well advised to join my party

are the poltical equiverlent to islam. inorder that the faith survives we must convert all.

who aspirse to great poltical power or office? anyone who does should be dragged out into the street and shot instantly for being an obivous traitor to humanity. ghandi once said everyone should be willing to be a martyr but no one should lust for martyrdom; is this not apt...

anyways we're aren't equiriing about how your party differs or looking to discuss it's relative merits so please this is no place for electionering.

"comparitive magnitiude i'd clean your own house befroe attendign to others..."

Always good advice but it is often "anarchists" who jeer at (say) Greens while doing (as most people who have voted here pupport) bugger all themselves.

this poll is flawed and nto representative nor does it say anything other than what those people who answered the question as stated feel or have personal prejudices about...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Done, see above. Your own contribution is worthless, pointless and what?

do we know have to put up with your contuied spouting of nonsense until you are again banned...

 

[butchersapron]

I don't now do we know?

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

ow do you define real and fake then? surely one must qualify in order to be placed into either camp??



"however you are canvassing inside of a party poltical system you have adopted their mantel and as such are just as tainted as they"

Yep. It's ugly too, trying to take on establishment reactionaries at their own game, but council powers exist and their decisions would have to be made even in an Anarcho-Communist utopia.

Those powers need to be used with the interests of the only planet we have far more centre stage. If we wait for the glorious revolution to happen before we try to change transport and planning we're all fucked.

"are the poltical equiverlent to islam. inorder that the faith survives we must convert all" - thats one interpretation. I prefer to recall that Mohammed said "there is no compulsion in religion"

"who aspirse to great poltical power or office? anyone who does should be dragged out into the street and shot instantly"

However dangerous a candidate is, they are almost certainly not as dangerous as people who talk about "dragging people out and shooting them". You are being silly again, frothing at the mouth.

"anyways we're aren't equiriing about how your party differs or looking to discuss it's relative merits so please this is no place for electionering"

Anyone who thinks posting on a message board is effective electioneering would need their head read as much as someone who fantasises about shooting people. I was talking round the subject which is what people do on threads. If you want that changed on U75 maybe you should contact the mods.

"this poll is flawed and nto representative"

"Not representitive" I can buy, "flawed" Im less sure about.

 

[october_lost]

We have a really good Anarchist in Preston Respect - he gets involved with everything... squats, STW, Fighting Unions, worker's co-ops... he's invaluable as an activist really, within all the different political groups in and around Preston.

But he doesn't think much of the rest of the Anarchist groups in and around Preston. He no longer goes to Solfed or AF meetings, and pretty much shares all the SWPs criticisms of other groups, whilst not seeing the need for a 'revolutionary party'. Which is pretty much the way I see other anarchists too.

Most anarchists are waste of time Middle-Class wannabe revvos. It's revolutionary politics for the lazy; those who like to keep the 'well I'm an anarchist, I don't need to actually do anything' card ready for use at all times. The anarchists in Preston have increased in number by quite a few over the last year, but their actual net output of efforts must have decreased over the same period. Too much time spent sitting in the pub whining pathetically about 'SWP domina-tion!', or turning up to STW meetings, standing outside and talking about how funny it would be if no-one turned up (they haven't found out yet, fucking tossers) - or even hysterically shouting at our SWP organiser in public about how the fact that Respect puts on alcohol free events so that Muslims feel comfortable turning up shows conclusively that Respect works against working-class interests. Fuck 'em, lazy fucks. They have enough people on the ground to own Preston, but they're no-where to be seen.

DU, your a shit stirrer and a dick (and yes I do know who you are!)
Nobody in the Anarchist scene in Preston qualifies your assertion of middle class, and how come if were so pathetic and inactive that your members are constantly trailing our activity? The SWP have really moved down hill in Preston, and that you feel the need to potshot us is a clear sign of it.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

ow do you define real and fake then? surely one must qualify in order to be placed into either camp??


"however you are canvassing inside of a party poltical system you have adopted their mantel and as such are just as tainted as they"

Yep. It's ugly too, trying to take on establishment reactionaries at their own game, but council powers exist and their decisions would have to be made even in an Anarcho-Communist utopia.

Those powers need to be used with the interests of the only planet we have far more centre stage. If we wait for the glorious revolution to happen before we try to change transport and planning we're all fucked.

were it utopia then the system would work with out error... n'est pas...

the actions may have to be taken however the mechansims and also the need for conformity of those actions may not even exist dependant on how the society grouped or orangised itself. you are of course assume that on hydra head si repalced by another interchangeable with the last rather than an entirely different mind set...

"are the poltical equiverlent to islam. inorder that the faith survives we must convert all" - thats one interpretation. I prefer to recall that Mohammed said "there is no compulsion in religion"

he also said it was right to rise against the kafur... however, the distinction was anayogoius a perpetion of the status quo for the sake of the status quo nothing less...

"who aspirse to great poltical power or office? anyone who does should be dragged out into the street and shot instantly"

However dangerous a candidate is, they are almost certainly not as dangerous as people who talk about "dragging people out and shooting them". You are being silly again, frothing at the mouth.

let's use a different phrase then no one who lust for power deserves it. period for power is a means to an end not an end in itself.

"anyways we're aren't equiriing about how your party differs or looking to discuss it's relative merits so please this is no place for electionering"

Anyone who thinks posting on a message board is effective electioneering would need their head read as much as someone who fantasises about shooting people. I was talking round the subject which is what people do on threads. If you want that changed on U75 maybe you should contact the mods.

i'm merely preventing this turning into a swp type thread nothing more.

"this poll is flawed and nto representative"

"Not representitive" I can buy, "flawed" Im less sure about.

an unrepsentative poll is flawed by default also you fail to take into account that not every single person is taking part in your 'poll' or for that matter even on urban is taking part. or that urban is representative of the wider populaces view. or that those views aren't informed by peoples own prejudices. or that some people wouldn't enguage in polls period.

 

[revol68]

datfty taffty, it's funny cos when i clicked on this thread i was expecting some woeful tale involving cider bottles, dogs on string and anti social behaviour but infact i've been pleasantly suprised, the anarchist mentioned clearly has his neighbours best interests at heart and didn't want to be the Lundy of his block.

Like others have said, if you think you were going to be so welcomed by the unwashed masses why didn't you ring theirs?

As for anarchists being on the dole, well firstly you're making a massive assumption, afterall he could have worked nights, evenings or better yet having a nice day off, on the other hand what would be problem with him being unemployed?

Interesting though, why the fuck weren't you in work instead of out harrassing your neighbours?

An old housemate of mine told Alex Maskey to fuck off from our front door one year, was pretty funny.

"Hi I'm Alex Maskey from Sinn Fein can I come in and speak to you about the upcoming election?"

"No, I'm a Marxist"

"Well could I speak to your other housemates?"

"No, one's an anarchist and the other one's spanish, now fuck off!".

The comedy was on Maskey's face, he couldn't believe that a big man like himself had been spoken to like that.

 

[Belushi]

I've met some really sound anarchists, unfortunately I've met some real fucking dicks as well. Which is sad as imho they do enormous damage to the anarchist cause.

 

[simon foster]

I've known a few real anarchists who practise what they preach. They all steered clear of the boys' clubs like Class War and AF.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

I've met some really sound anarchists, unfortunately I've met some real fucking dicks as well. Which is sad as imho they do enormous damage to the anarchist cause.

do you think that this is becuase however, arachism get's a bad rep anyways as it has been used to mean lawless chaos for so long it's synoimous with it... and therefore as a poltical mindset or action has a PR problem. So each time some one acts like a dick it merely negtes the good sensible actions taken by anarcists?

I think that all poltical ideas have their dicks but don't seem to be as tainted by them as fringe political groups....

• coservative fucks about act the dick waddya expect they're a conservative.
• Labour acts like a dick waddya expect they're some pr slick shit...
• lib dem's acts like a dick fucking hell there is some life in that lot, they aren't all born again happy clappies then ...
• green act like a dick who cares isn't there like two of them anyway in the entire country and the are both militant vegan pofaced miserys...
• anarchist act's like a dick it's a damming indiment of modern society and goes to show we need more laws to contol this menance and futher resrict everyone as they are te incarnation of the devil himself kill all the first born male children and lay open the sacrifical alters it's the only way to be sure...

which is essentially the stance which i see this thread coming from...

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

revol68

"datfty taffty, it's funny cos when i clicked on this thread i was expecting some woeful tale involving cider bottles, dogs on string and anti social behaviour"

Those stereotypes crossed my mind, but might have been an even bigger distraction than the anecdote I served up, ill advisedly as I've admitted.

"Like others have said, if you think you were going to be so welcomed by the unwashed masses why didn't you ring theirs?"

I did. not that they are unwashed.

"As for anarchists being on the dole, well firstly you're making a massive assumption"

No Im not, plenty of anarchists are on the dole. I dont want to get into the individaul instance, the generality is true that it is highly dubious to criticise the very existence of the state while receiving most of ones income from it.

"on the other hand what would be problem with him being unemployed?"

none. But there is a problem with slagging off the state while benefitting so much from them in cheap housing and benefits, Our welfare state was founded by a strong and quite socialist political party - and how the anarchists love to sneer at such things.

"Interesting though, why the fuck weren't you in work instead of out harrassing your neighbours?" I have a job. Canvassing isnt generally considered harrassment - you dont have to believe me but most people welcome it or dont mind it. People also moan when they are not canvassed.

"Hi I'm Alex Maskey from Sinn Fein can I come in and speak to you about the upcoming election?"

"No, I'm a Marxist"

Sometime last year I put up a thread: "Are Sinn Fein the most successful Marxist Party in the history of the British Isles?" - t'was quite a fun and illuminating thread -wander if your pal read or posted on it.

 

[Thora]

"As for anarchists being on the dole, well firstly you're making a massive assumption"

No Im not, plenty of anarchists are on the dole. I dont want to get into the individaul instance, the generality is true that it is highly dubious to criticise the very existence of the state while receiving most of ones income from it.

Anarchists criticise capitalism too, but if you get a job you're receiving your income from capitalism

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

GarfieldLeChat

"an unrepsentative poll is flawed by default also you fail to take into account that not every single person is taking part in your 'poll' or for that matter even on urban is taking part. or that urban is representative of the wider populaces view. or that those views aren't informed by peoples own prejudices. or that some people wouldn't enguage in polls period."

The question in the poll is fairly clear and there are a range of clear possible responses. The question and response fields are not flawed. All your other criticisms apply to any poll on U75 and most done elsewhere. of course all such polls are unscientific, not neccessarily representitive of U75 or the broader population etc. etc. All this info is available from The Department of The Bleeding Obvious. If you think the polls here are a valueless waste of time, again - tell the mods and they might stop the facility.

However, I appreciate that most of the discussion here has been fuelled by those disputing the idea that "easily half" or more anarchists are "strictly armchair". Those who think they are have been reticent to say why.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

Anarchists criticise capitalism too, but if you get a job you're receiving your income from capitalism

fair point, though many anarchists do stuff that is ultimately public or grant funded too (i.e the state and 3rd sector). Disengaging oneself from the system is very hard and hats off to anyone who tries.

 

[In Bloom]

No Im not, plenty of anarchists are on the dole. I dont want to get into the individaul instance, the generality is true that it is highly dubious to criticise the very existence of the state while receiving most of ones income from it.

So any anarchist who doesn't just go starve to death in the gutter somewhere when they lose their job is a hypocrite then? You really are a complete fucking idiot, aren't you?

I'm not out to "disengage from The System(TM)", because that's completely fucking impossible and politically useless. Even if you lived completely by skipping and squatting, you're still just living off the waste of capitalism.

 

[taffboy gwyrdd]

So any anarchist who doesn't just go starve to death in the gutter somewhere when they lose their job is a hypocrite then? You really are a complete fucking idiot, aren't you?

Clearly not - and they are only getting back what is rightfully theres through NI anyhow. But planning long term to live off the state while sneering at it is silly, and it goes on. Pretending i expect people to die out of some fetishised principle is really far out.

Besides, plenty of so called anarchists might well "grow out of it" and make ££££ in later years out of capitalism, paying back into the system though.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Clearly not - and they are only getting back what is rightfully theres through NI anyhow. But planning long term to live off the state while sneering at it is silly, and it goes on. Pretending i expect people to die out of some fetishised principle is really far out.

Besides, plenty of so called anarchists might well "grow out of it" and make ££££ in later years out of capitalism, paying back into the system though.

here we go again with your crass generaliseations ...

 

[xenon]

Smaller parties need to canvass more to make up for the fact that larger parties have far better "brand awareness" (for want of a better way of putting it)

I happen to door knock beyond just election times. Again, there is a catch 22 here - if parties canvass they are annoying gibbering hacks. If they dont they are aloof and dont care what people think.

Tis a problem. During the recent council elections, no one canvassed at my small block of flats. I can say this with some certainty, as I've been in most of the time. It would have been unlikely to have changed my mind over anything. But a chance to ask questions would have been welcome.

Maybe you should have rephrased the OP along the lines of. How many who identify themselves as anarchists follow that philosophy against how many are just lifestylers.

I have no idea.

 

[Firky]

I policeman once told me I wasn't a real anarchist because I was using a mobile phone

i can imagine a copper saying that.

 

[october_lost]

But planning long term to live off the state while sneering at it is silly, and it goes on.

Some would actually call that a form of resistance to the monopoly of the state

 

[snorbury]

anarchy is alwright, it's all about free food distribution and squatting, in england it seems to attract right wingers but here in france and spain we have a strong (don't fuck my head) tradition. Dropping out the english system isn't too hard coz it was only ever fair weather style anyway