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How Hamas behave now ..

Spion said:
Who denies what Hamas is? You bang away at it because you just don't understand that the nature of Hamas makes no difference to whether or not the first thing we should try and do something about, from here, is to end the occupation
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spion i am multi tasking .. i agree we must fight now on simple issues now .. ( i attended the picket regualry and woudkl have marched if i had not been ill ) BUT it is also important to recognise the eivl that is nationalism AND speak of it NOW .. particualry as zionism is simply ultra nationalism too and we must argue against that
 
Spion said:
OK, for the sake of argument (I haven't read all 1,000-plus words because it makes no difference to me here) - true. now what? I'm still for ending the occupation unconditionally and immediately. Are you?
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see above .. but i am for much much more .. simply saying ending the occupation ignores too much
 
durruti02 said:
tins_Jan2009.htm#b180109

"Hamas gangs kill Fatah members in Gaza
by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook, Jan. 18, 2009

Hamas has murdered "dozens of Fatah members" in the Gaza Strip for merely violating the Hamas-imposed house arrest. According to the Palestinian daily Al-Hayat Al-Jadida the atrocities, which also included shooting people in the legs, has created a backlash in the West Bank and caused "anger, which influenced the level of popular activities carried out in solidarity with the Gaza residents in the towns Ramallah and El-Bira."

In addition, the popular Palestinian singer, Jamal Najar, condemned Hamas as "gangs of anarchic security forces," describing how Hamas murdered his cousin right in front of his children for simply stepping outside. [PA TV (Fatah)]



Groups within the Fatah movement in the West Bank estimated that more than a hundred of its people in the Gaza Strip had been exposed to persecution, shooting, and liquidation."
[Al-Hayat Al-Jadida (Fatah), Jan. 9, 2009]

Jamal Najar, popular Palestinian singer:
"I express my condolences to my cousins, some of them were killed yesterday by the gangs of the anarchic [Hamas] security forces in the Gaza Strip... The father was killed right in front of his children, because he didn't stay at home, after they placed him under house arrest, he and everyone who belongs to Fatah."
[PA TV (Fatah) Jan. 6, 2009]

http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/3212

"Since Hamas members tried to violently force women to wear the veil in Gaza during the first Intifada that started in 1987, she is waiting to see whether they will try to do the same thing now.But some women's activists in Gaza fear they or their centers could be next now that the Strip is effectively controlled by Hamas forces...."They are against women's agenda and women's rules and women's rights," said Rima Alrakhawi, public relations officer of the Women's Affairs Center in Gaza, a research and training center..."Honor killings"--in which a woman's life is taken for her perceived immoral behavior--have risen sharply in the last year in Gaza."

( nb this article quite rightly places the blame for breakdown of the society with the israelis state)

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2007/05/2008525123553267897.html

"Armed men have opened fire and thrown grenades near a children's festival at a UN-operated elementary school in the southern Gaza Strip, killing a local Fatah leader's bodyguard and wounding seven people.

No one has claimed responsibility for Sunday's attack but earlier armed men outside the school had warned authorities not to hold the event.
Majed Abu Shamaleh, the Fatah official whose bodyguard was killed, said the men had also tried to enter the school in Rafah as the celebration took place.

The group had apparently announced that any festivities held where girls and boys mixed, showed dissent against Islam.
'Anti-Islam plot'

Abu Shamaleh said they had issued a warning on Saturday in which they blamed the UN for "turning people away from Islam."
The men had said John Ging, director of the United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East (UNRWA) in Gaza, was "at the head" of an alleged movement to weaken people's faiths.

Abu Shamaleh said the shooting appeared to have been carried out by the same group who had been behind a string of bombings of internet cafes and pool halls in Gaza."


http://www.sendika.org/english/yazi.php?yazi_no=13129

Palestine - General Federation of Trade Unions hit on all sides
13 September 2007 -

By Omar Khalifa

Shaher Saed admits his job is endangering his life, but he has vowed to continue [PGFTU]

With 47 per cent of the potential Palestinian labour force unemployed and a per capita income 23 times less than that of Israel, the Palestinian General Federation of Trade Unions (PGFTU) has a difficult enough job.

Since the Hamas takeover of Gaza in June, however, their job has become much more difficult.

The PGFTU, in the West Bank and Gaza, has been attacked from all sides - by Hamas, a Fatah militia and Israel - in acts that have included, they say, murder attempts, raids, shootings and rocket attacks.

In June, the PGFTU said Hamas seized their headquarters and ordered the union's staff to discuss how they were to operate under Hamas rule.

According to Shaher Saed, general secretary of the PGFTU, the union refused to negotiate. As a result, Saed said, three assassination attempts were made by Hamas on Rasem Al Bayari, the union's deputy general secretary, which included a rocket attack on his home in January and the bombing of his office in February.

Saed said Hamas forces raided PGFTU offices and targetted its leaders [AP]
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You're using Itemar Marcus as a source?
I'm losing respect for you fast.
 
durruti02 said:
tangentlama .. why do you like another on here always seek to discredit instead of argue, smear instead of disprove .. if tzipi said it was sunny would you say it was raining?

what is sad is that the left ignore issues like this .. and leave the field for as the reactionary right
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How about you, rather than making snide remarks, doing a bit of research on Marcus, take a look at whose shit you're buying into?
 
durruti02 said:
see above .. but i am for much much more .. simply saying ending the occupation ignores too much
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I could write 10,000 words on why Hamas are a reactionary dead end for Palestinian working people and it'd be a very important thing to do in the building of a socialist organisation in Gaza, but the most important thing we can do here in this country is to campaign to get Israel out of the territories
 
Spion said:
I could write 10,000 words on why Hamas are a reactionary dead end for Palestinian working people and it'd be a very important thing to do in the building of a socialist organisation in Gaza, but the most important thing we can do here in this country is to campaign to get Israel out of the territories
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good .. so why does only the AWL do so here then? i agree re the territories but it is not enough .. the arguement is older and must go further
 
The question uppermost in my mind is not whether it's true of false, although given the sources I would be highly sceptical about it.

The question uppermost in my mind is why you are recycling Likud-linked propaganda on Urban.
 
durruti02 said:
why why why do people not wish to accept what hamas is??? spion THIS is why i bang away at this!
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You're asking people to accept a particular characterisation, put forward by you, of what HAMAS "is", rather than a neutral, nuanced series of facts about HAMAS is. That's why people don't generally pay attention to your characterisations. It's because they recognise them for what they are, and for what they're not.
What's really quite sad (in a pathetic way) is how eagerly you grasp at any branch that lends support to your preconceived prejudice, because that's the only way to explain someone who was an anti-fascist agreeing with something a kackmeister like Marcus has written.
 
Bernie Gunther said:
The question uppermost in my mind is not whether it's true of false, although given the sources I would be highly sceptical about it.

The question uppermost in my mind is why you are recycling Likud-linked propaganda on Urban.
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message - messengers .. are you arguing that as the sources are right wing and as it may or may not help a israeli agenda ( actually i think they like hamas as they are bogey men) that therefore these things do not matter? that is daft .. they certainly do to secular palestinian women .. and they certainly matter in any long term solution
 
ViolentPanda said:
You're asking people to accept a particular characterisation, put forward by you, of what HAMAS "is", rather than a neutral, nuanced series of facts about HAMAS is. That's why people don't generally pay attention to your characterisations. It's because they recognise them for what they are, and for what they're not.
What's really quite sad (in a pathetic way) is how eagerly you grasp at any branch that lends support to your preconceived prejudice, because that's the only way to explain someone who was an anti-fascist agreeing with something a kackmeister like Marcus has written.
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VP is ANY of wht i have posted incorrect? simple question simple answer

( btw i am entirely happy to accept that hamas is not all the same, that there are wings progressives and reactionaries, hard liners and pragmatists .. there qoutes have been qouted many times on here .. but all sides must be seen )
 
tangentlama said:
Yes he is, and insulting me for pointing this out for a second time.
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are you really incapable of reading .. or are you just stupid?

qoute D02 ".. i am entirely happy to accept he is scum of the highest order .. " clear now are we?? ;)

now what did i cnp that was incorrect?
 
durruti02 said:
.. they certainly do to secular palestinian women ..
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O RLY?

A woman has been installed as mayor of the Palestinian Authority’s political capital Ramallah thanks to the support of the Islamist movement Hamas, officials said yesterday.

Janette Khuri, a 62-year-old Christian, became the first woman mayor of a major West Bank municipality when she was elected by a majority of her 15 fellow councillors.

Khuri, a member of the leftist Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP), triumphed over the ruling Fatah faction’s candidate Ghazi Hanania when the three Hamas members voted for her.
http://www.palpress.ps/english/index.php?maa=ReadStory&ChannelID=2363
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She's a secular Christian, mind you. http://leninology.blogspot.com/2006/01/evil.html
 
tangentlama said:
Yes, how dreadful that they support secular marxist palestinian women for town council! Shocking. What rotters!
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so you utterly deny any of the gaza stuff? you ignore the qoutes of womens activists? and you ONLY note their opportunism in the progressive west bank? nieve or what
 
the main priority has got to be stopping Israel's war crimes, not how working class an organisation is, surely?
 
durruti02 said:
fool .. i am against nationalism .. i am for the destruction of israel .. but not by nationalism .. now answer my question please .. what is incorrect in what i have posted
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So why are you uncritically repeating Likud propaganda?

Understand, if you'd been using neutral sources I wouldn't be giving you a hard time about this, but you are sourcing these claims on someone who is an identifiably Likud-linked PR guy.
 
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