How far should the EU spread?

[Bear]

What should be the conditions for membership?

Here ya go, I did a google search (all those conditions seem good to me) -



The 1993 Copenhagen European Council for the first time laid down a number of specific criteria that the candidate countries would have to fulfil in order to be granted membership:

* Political criteria: Stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities.
* Economic criteria: Existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union.
* Institutional criteria: Ability to take on the obligations of membership by transposing into national legislation and effectively implementing the Community acquis.

Fulfilment of the political criteria is a prerequisite for the initiation of accession negotiations between a candidate country and the European Union.

Twelve countries have initiated accession negotiations: Bulgaria, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic. Although Turkey is also a candidate country, it doesn’t meet the political criteria and consequently hasn’t yet entered into negotiations for accession.

 

[laptop]

What's rather interesting is who in the UK opposes the EU.

The Trots are against it because they have fantasies of taking control of the UK State and reckon it would spoil their party.

The right-wing are against it because they have control of the State (or are even further right than the State and have fantasies of taking control) and reckon it prevents them making the UK as right-wing as they'd like.

Note that the threat to civil liberties is currently from home-grown NuLabor and they're talking about abandoning the inconvenient parts of the European Declaration of Human Rights to do so.

Yes, I know, ECHR isn't an EU thing, but it is the basis for the first criterion of EU membership. The (initial) fiscal benefit of EU membership acts as a carrot to get candidate countries to adopt some decent human rights standards.

 

[lewislewis]

Who is for the EU in the UK then Laptop (was a pretty good explanation of each faction's position btw)

Not having the death penalty is also criteria for EU membership, and to the body's credit the EU has run a consistent campaign against the death penalty.

People from the Right in the UK that oppose the EU are hailing from the same English political tradition that is xenophobic and dates from when Britain had the empire. When you consider the UK to be an empire with a destined place leading the world...the Right cannot see why such a proud country should submit its sovereignty to the EU.

The Trot position is just as the gentleman/lady above puts it, a 'fantasy'.

 

[MikeMcc]

Security policy in the EU is decided inter-governmentally. The EU has no standing army, therefore NATO stepped in. The EU did fund certain projects though to help the area stabilize afterwards.

NATO had fuck all to do with the threat from the Soviets, it has fuck all influence now and will never have any influence.

Two points, the EU has been able to call on countries forces to form a corp sized force.

http://www.arrc.nato.int/

Where were you between the 50s and 80s? To dismiss NATO so blithely is amazing. Even as late as the mid 1980s the perceived threat from the USSR meant was such that we spent an amazing amount of money exercising troops all over Germany (I was there do just that from 86 to 91 before returning to the UK).

 

[MikeMcc]

Bollocks. Ever heard of the ECSC? European countries consolidated their material wealth initially to arm itself against possible Soviet threat which developed more into economic trade between member states and formation of the Union.

It's impossible to define "Europe" by geographical means alone, I do however believe countries need to share a cultural affinity with Europe, share certain European ideals. Turkey is miles of that as we speak.

NATO was formed some 3 years previous to the ECSC. How was a trade organisation supposed to provide wealth to allow for arming themselves when one of the signatories was banned from being armed at the time?

 

[lewislewis]

Two points, the EU has been able to call on countries forces to form a corp sized force.

http://www.arrc.nato.int/

Where were you between the 50s and 80s? To dismiss NATO so blithely is amazing. Even as late as the mid 1980s the perceived threat from the USSR meant was such that we spent an amazing amount of money exercising troops all over Germany (I was there do just that from 86 to 91 before returning to the UK).

Mike, what do you think about the prospect of Putin's Russia joining Nato?

To be honest Nato should be abolished an America's influence in European security affairs weakened. I'm not keen on the EU having it's own military though, i'm going to be shocking and say we don't really need one at that level.

 

[Gmart]

Here ya go, I did a google search (all those conditions seem good to me) -

The 1993 Copenhagen European Council for the first time laid down a number of specific criteria that the candidate countries would have to fulfil in order to be granted membership:

* Political criteria: Stability of institutions guaranteeing democracy, the rule of law, human rights and respect for and protection of minorities.
* Economic criteria: Existence of a functioning market economy as well as the capacity to cope with competitive pressure and market forces within the Union.
* Institutional criteria: Ability to take on the obligations of membership by transposing into national legislation and effectively implementing the Community acquis.

Fulfilment of the political criteria is a prerequisite for the initiation of accession negotiations between a candidate country and the European Union.

Twelve countries have initiated accession negotiations: Bulgaria, Estonia, Cyprus, Latvia, Lithuania, Malta, Hungary, Poland, Romania, Slovakia, Slovenia and the Czech Republic. Although Turkey is also a candidate country, it doesn’t meet the political criteria and consequently hasn’t yet entered into negotiations for accession.

I agree, with the addition from lewislewis of the death penalty and my own favourite, the institutionalised separation of church and state.

I especially like the protection of the minorities. I would like to see a right to choose if you wish to be a country or an area within the EU. For example should Scotland be a country or an area and what differences in the ability to set laws should this difference bring? Why should Luxembourg be a country but Catalonia not? These are issues which should be decided by referendum and in the long term I would like the EU to be able to address them.

It was a previous (unanswered) question as to which laws should be decided at the national/local level and which should be decided at the European level. The principle of susidiarity is all very well but I would like to see it more distinctly stated rather than generalised as it is now.

Sad to see that Albania and the Balkans are not on Bear's list of countries yet. Albania (being Muslim) would be good practice for accepting countries with a different religion.

I would hope that ALL those countries could join eventually

 

[zoltan]

So the Balkans, yes, even Albania, which is Muslim yes (coz it would be a good dry run for Turkey later), Moldova? Why not? Macedonia sure, Cyprus, sure. What about Belorussia? Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia all want in too!

Arent they already ?

 

[lewislewis]

Does Albania meet the human rights criteria?

 

[MikeMcc]

Mike, what do you think about the prospect of Putin's Russia joining Nato?

To be honest Nato should be abolished an America's influence in European security affairs weakened. I'm not keen on the EU having it's own military though, i'm going to be shocking and say we don't really need one at that level.

I'd say that there isn't a hope in hell of Russia joining either NATO or the EU. They have their own issues that they wish to persue without being shackled to either group, particularly with the southern republics and China.

At the moment, the idea of not having an armed force to apply the ultimate political leverage is naive, particularly with a re-organising Russian military and problems in the SE of Europe (Kosovo, the Kurds, Fundamental Islamic groups). I agree that NATO is not as significant as it once was, but that it's influence historically shouldn't be dismissed in order to allow the EU to gain misplaced glory.

 

[lewislewis]

I am not interested in the EU gaining any glory nor in the project's status as a security force, the only thing I am interesting in is the economic dimension, the governance and the capacity to direct affairs in Europe.
It is essential we remain part of the EU and also fight our own corner here in Wales.

 

[Peet]

But let's be honest how much 'centralised legislation' from the EU is really determining the way I live? Realistically, it is the UK government and not Brussells that is responsible for undermining civil liberties, turning the UK into a police state, and messing things up with Iraq etc.

You underestimate how much the UK regulates to an EU agenda. As for undermining civil liberties, the EU touches us in ways you'd never even realise. Many little things that slip by unnoticed.

 

[Gmart]

Too right the way that Europe insisted that we apply proper european regulations to our train system thus resulting in fewer deaths in recent crashes was criminal!!!

 

[lewislewis]

And those pesky workers rights things like a legal break after 6 hours of work and the minmum daily rest period. Whatever next!

 

[Gmart]

And the pesky Welsh who now actually GET money because the EU has forced Westminster to do so...

 

[camouflage]

I think the European Union should embark upon a campaign to civilise the degenerate land of the United States of America. We must illuminate that dark and savage country, and bring them to know the grace of human enlightenment, for it is our duty to aid those less fortunate then ourselves. or something.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I suggest it should spread to the moon & other planets--indeed, I'll chip in towards a (permanent) relocation of the European Parliament & Commission there, asap...

the americans do not any longer seem to take us back to the moon, never mind further worlds. we have to create a european equivalent of nasa and take over the job.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I think the European Union should embark upon a campaign to civilise the degenerate land of the United States of America. We must illuminate that dark and savage country, and bring them to know the grace of human enlightenment, for it is our duty to aid those less fortunate then ourselves. or something.

exactly. ever since they've been watering their tea in boston harbour all these years ago, it's all gone downhill.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I'm not sure about the "we", but yes.

EEC -> EC -> EU -> ???

I suppose "Eurasia" might be a logical next step.

Earth?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

They qualify under the Eurovision loophole.

and football.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Future EU members i'd like to see are Wales, Scotland, Kosova, Montenegro, and any others whose people vote in a free and fair referendum to join.

and Serbia. Montenegro is within the Euro zone, BTW.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Migration from member states of the EU is legal with a work permit.

bollocks. only if you come from eastern europe.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

It will only be a matter of time until Germany rises again. It is their nature.

on what grounds can you defend this statement?

 

[guinnessdrinker]

There is a view that modern Germany is a state which is prone to expanding and fighting it's neighbours. My old history teacher held such a view actually.

maybe he was old....

 

[guinnessdrinker]

The same goes with the Islamic debate. If we can get the EU to enshrine the separation of church and state and an Islamic State accepts this then that would lead to a good system.

as far as I know france and turkey are the only nation that are truly secular in law.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

Bollocks. Ever heard of the ECSC? European countries consolidated their material wealth initially to arm itself against possible Soviet threat which developed more into economic trade between member states and formation of the Union.

It's impossible to define "Europe" by geographical means alone, I do however believe countries need to share a cultural affinity with Europe, share certain European ideals. Turkey is miles of that as we speak.

istambul was remarkably european last time I went there.

 

[guinnessdrinker]

I like Russia. The commies before the collapse of the Soviet Union could have sucked the cheese right out of my arse the cunts. But I have a good deal of time for Putin. Man of balls. No nonsense, wants to set things right, put his country back on the map, regain respect, stamp on those islamist cunts on his doorstep.

EU? We should be making them honourary members and sucking their cocks. As for Turkey, they can swivel off my left testicle and take a flying leap into the Black Sea.

you're greek, aren't you?......

 

[nino_savatte]

you're greek, aren't you?......

So he says.

 

[lewislewis]

And the pesky Welsh who now actually GET money because the EU has forced Westminster to do so...

Don't get me started on the fucking Welsh, I walked into a pub and they suddenly started speaking in Welsh to spite me.

 

[lewislewis]

and Serbia. Montenegro is within the Euro zone, BTW.

Sure Serbia too.

Montenegro is not part of the Eurozone or European Union, although it is a member of the Council of Europe & the OSCE.