ethel
Well-Known Member
i agree. i think that's it's often not the front line staff who are incompentent, but the managers.
How easy should it be to sack shit staff in the public sector?
- Thread starter kyser_soze
- Start date
i agree. i think that's it's often not the front line staff who are incompentent, but the managers.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Oh fuck yes. Absolutely. It is important to root out the shitness from the top down, rather than from the bottom up. Bad managers, of which there are gazillions in the public sector - some of them very high up - should be the first against the wall
But instead no one goes against the wall. We don't even have a wall
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Yeah - I've seen this happen several times - it's driven me out of the sector I loved working in
I've seen so many people wrongly forced outof work just because their line-manager didn't like themand could get away with setting them up to fail (often with the unions turning a blind eye to it) that it's innoculated me for life against calling for stronger management/disciplinary powers.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
Yeah - I've seen this happen several times - it's driven me out of the sector I loved working in
I've seen so many people wrongly forced outof work just because their line-manager didn't like themand could get away with setting them up to fail (often with the unions turning a blind eye to it as the manager is in the same union) that it's innoculated me for life against calling for stronger management/disciplinary powers.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
Which is fine, as long as you don't expect good public services.
I've worked in NHS trusts. I know why they are so often shit. It's a lot to do with them having shit people working in them (at every level). Lots of them. What's your solution?
Disclaimer: I dislike top-down hierarchies of every kind and would like to see them abolished in the public sector. In the absence of a revolution however I think we need an interim solution to bad public services.
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
I don't see how having good staff bullied out of their jobs does create good services, quite frankly.
Haven't you noticed how the relentless culture of line-management impunity has coincided with the steep decline in service standards? It's partly because so many bullying, authoritarian - yet useless - pricks routinely force out anyone they feel threatened by.
glenquagmire
Rightwing NuLab apologist
Once an organisation hires an employee, if they then turn out not to be fulfilling that role adequately, it is incumbent on the employer to train them as much as it takes to get them up to the required standard. If that doesn't work, to redeploy them to a more suitable role. If that is impossible, there are already procedures in place to dismiss them, and I know perfectly well that they are used in the public sector. If there is an issue here it is the unwillingness of management to invest in their staff so that they are capable of doing the job properly.
Brainaddict
slight system overdrive
As I said, a purge of bad staff needs to start from the top. But since *no-one* can be sacked, it can't start can it? Which means we can't get rid of the bad managers any more than we can get rid of the bad lower level staff. So resisting all sackings doesn't seem like such a clever tactic, even by your arguments.
innit
c'mon, little life giver
I'm sure what you say is true.
But I've also seen loads of burned out staff with appalling attitudes and no interest in any kind of change and improvement, who thought they were being bulled because their managers asked them to do their jobs properly.
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
FWIW, I think BA and I are of a mind on this issue - nothing he's said here I disagree with.
And posters back with his endless experience of working in places that no one else recognises:
This - I've got personal experience of dealing with this situation (as a co-worker, not manager) and it's shite.
And posters back with his endless experience of working in places that no one else recognises:
This - I've got personal experience of dealing with this situation (as a co-worker, not manager) and it's shite.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
eh? So I've imagined those hearings where I am representing a worker faced with the sack am I? And the manager who we got removed due to his total incompetence and bullying.
innit
c'mon, little life giver
i can't help noticing that all you lazy fuckers are posting on U75 when you should be working.
If it's to be made easier to sack piss-takers, start with youse lot ...
I wasn't like this before
I really wasn't... too many years of working with bitter lazy people has started to turn me a bit bitter and lazy myself, that's why I'm getting out now.
I think thats true...But i also think the people who do the bullying need to lose their jobs....And i do think that many public services seem to hold the public they are supposed to serve in contempt.
The amount of money i have seen wasted by councils,health authorities and charities is disgusting...
FridgeMagnet
Administrator
I wasn't like this before
I really wasn't... too many years of working with bitter lazy people has started to turn me a bit bitter and lazy myself, that's why I'm getting out now.
And I wonder how they got that way....
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