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How do we deal with the 'dehumanisation' or 'demonisation' of muslims

I'd take steps to curb the insidious reporting by the Murdoch press of sharia law extremities. Not that such gross misinterpretations of religious strictures shouldn't be opposed, oh no. But the highlighting of such as part of a broader anti-muslim agenda really wants addressing.
 
durruti02 said:
I have disagreed virulently with the tactics of Respect and the SWP re engagement with british muslims and i reject the claims of some that there is either a war on muslims or that muslims are under attack in this country.

however it is clear that the state and far right are using the muslims as 'bogeymen' and this will happen increasingly

as i said i reject the idea that we should try to form alliances with a section of relegious islam as swp/respect tried and swp failed ( see tower hamlets etc) respect still maintains some such alliance i think

should what can be done .. some ideas

1) what the left have falied to do for decades in fact probably not since the CP did before ww2, is organising locally .. orgainising in the workplace and the comunity IS the way to deal with these issues to a great extent

2) do what Telco and Citizens Organisising do .. work with all faiths .. i have sympathy with this position but i think it sees people thru there relegion rather than geographically .. it though is an acknowledgement many people currently live in relegious communities

3) look for common ground between communities .. instead of what makes peole .. work .. socialising .. unemeployment are all areas where muslim britsih and non muslim british have far more in common than they differ

any way that is start
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Good question. Maybe if the Muslim community try a more equal rights policy for the public eye, it may help. First, the Muslim community could start Gay and Lesbian Muslim groups. I am sure there are plenty of closet gay Muslims who would love to come out, without fear from their own community.

As we know many Muslim women are happy to wear the burkha. But just in case some women are not happy wearing the burkha and staying indoors most of the time.
Perhaps the Muslim community could encourage those who are not happy following the Muslim woman's traditional lifestyle, other choices. For instance, they could organise nights out for Muslim women down town, for those Muslim women who feel like letting their hair down a bit and having a drink and a laugh. I know there are plenty of Muslim women who do this already, but I think we can safely say there are Muslim women who would love to do this, but are scared to do so.

Dare I even say, women and men worshipping together at mosques. Would that be so bad in 21st century Britain?
Women's rights, gay rights, being adopted by the Muslim community, would be a good start in helping to stop the demonisation of the Muslim community.
 
DotCommunist said:
I'd take steps to curb the insidious reporting by the Murdoch press of sharia law extremities. Not that such gross misinterpretations of religious strictures shouldn't be opposed, oh no. But the highlighting of such as part of a broader anti-muslim agenda really wants addressing.
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You would seek the power to suppress news reports that put Muslims or Islam in a bad light?

Things like this? Or this? Or what about this?

These things happen, they need to be reported and we should be free to have debates about them.

And we should thank God for the fact we live in a country free from sharia - which is, of course, why so many Muslim people love living here and so many more would like to live here.
 
sonny61 said:
Good question. Maybe if the Muslim community try a more equal rights policy for the public eye, it may help. First, the Muslim community could start Gay and Lesbian Muslim groups. I am sure there are plenty of closet gay Muslims who would love to come out, without fear from their own community.

As we know many Muslim women are happy to wear the burkha. But just in case some women are not happy wearing the burkha and staying indoors most of the time.
Perhaps the Muslim community could encourage those who are not happy following the Muslim woman's traditional lifestyle, other choices. For instance, they could organise nights out for Muslim women down town, for those Muslim women who feel like letting their hair down a bit and having a drink and a laugh. I know there are plenty of Muslim women who do this already, but I think we can safely say there are Muslim women who would love to do this, but are scared to do so.

Dare I even say, women and men worshipping together at mosques. Would that be so bad in 21st century Britain?
Women's rights, gay rights, being adopted by the Muslim community, would be a good start in helping to stop the demonisation of the Muslim community.
Click to expand...

I think the best we, the majority and those with political power, can do is make sure that people are supported in the choices they make, are properly protected by law and where necessary, physically protected from those elements that might try to suppress them, and that we do all we can to give confidence and support to those Muslims that want to lead and effect change.
 
Fullyplumped said:
You would seek the power to suppress news reports that put Muslims or Islam in a bad light?

Things like this? Or this? Or what about this?

These things happen, they need to be reported and we should be free to have debates about them.

And we should thank God for the fact we live in a country free from sharia - which is, of course, why so many Muslim people love living here and so many more would like to live here.
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when used as part of a broader anti-muslim agenda I cry 'agit-prop'.

These things happen ad are not acceptable to me but fuck if I'll ignore the way they are used to whip up anti-muslim sentiment.
 
DotCommunist said:
when used as part of a broader anti-muslim agenda I cry 'agit-prop'. These things happen ad are not acceptable to me but fuck if I'll ignore the way they are used to whip up anti-muslim sentiment.
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I deliberately sourced these stories from the Daily Telegraph, NY Times and Independent (and Belfast Telegraph) because they're not Murdoch papers.

But straight, serious reporting and comment isn't agit-prop, any more than this or this is.
 
The Sun should be commended on it's ceaseless reporting about Dubai's laws, even when it it gets it totally wrong and has to change tack suddenly. An agenda-less paper eh?
 
Fullyplumped said:
You would seek the power to suppress news reports that put Muslims or Islam in a bad light?

Things like this? Or this? Or what about this?

These things happen, they need to be reported and we should be free to have debates about them.

And we should thank God for the fact we live in a country free from sharia - which is, of course, why so many Muslim people love living here and so many more would like to live here.
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i can't be bothered to argue with you you tedious fuck. fuck off eh? thank god we can still have to put up with idiots like you......:rolleyes:
 
Paulie Tandoori said:
i can't be bothered to argue with you you tedious fuck. fuck off eh? thank god we can still have to put up with idiots like you......:rolleyes:
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I wasn't aware that you and I had been arguing with each other, or even that we disagreed about anything much. I see you're clearly upset about something to make you use such profane language and waggle your eyes like that. But I agree with you about the fact that we can still have to put up with points of view we disagree with. Which is why this is such a great country.
 
DotCommunist said:
The Sun should be commended on it's ceaseless reporting about Dubai's laws, even when it it gets it totally wrong and has to change tack suddenly. An agenda-less paper eh?
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I have to confess that I don't read The Sun and don't read stories about Dubai, and have no plans to visit. So you may be right. I don't see how you're going to suppress them from reporting the news, though.

I did a search on their website. I found this headline - Boozed-up brunette banged up for Dubai beach bunk-up bailed - which sounded intriguing, but the big story seems to be Dubai 'adultery' mum's agony, which is obviously a sad story but hardly evidence of an anti-Muslim agenda. The message, if there is one, seems to be - if you go to Dubai take care not to get yourself into a compromising situation because the government is a bit lacking in understanding and is likely to take the side of the dad even if he's a git. All the other stories seem to be about footballers.

You made me read the Sun! Happy, are you?
 
The dehumatisation of the "enemy" is something that we should be familiar with. Makes it easy to kill/fight them.
* Africans are not human therefore it's ok to sell them as slaves
* French do not wash.
* Argentinians were "argies".
* Muslim's are </insert> thus it's ok to </insert>
* The West is </insert> thus it's ok to </insert>

TO be honest, I care not about this reglious tension. GWB invaded a nation for oil and got away with it. Meanwhile a mad man with a beard is front page of a f-ing paper 'cos he does not like the infidel of the day.
 
Fullyplumped said:
I have to confess that I don't read The Sun and don't read stories about Dubai, and have no plans to visit. So you may be right. I don't see how you're going to suppress them from reporting the news, though.

I did a search on their website. I found this headline - Boozed-up brunette banged up for Dubai beach bunk-up bailed - which sounded intriguing, but the big story seems to be Dubai 'adultery' mum's agony, which is obviously a sad story but hardly evidence of an anti-Muslim agenda. The message, if there is one, seems to be - if you go to Dubai take care not to get yourself into a compromising situation because the government is a bit lacking in understanding and is likely to take the side of the dad even if he's a git. All the other stories seem to be about footballers.

You made me read the Sun! Happy, are you?
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Ha! enjoyed the reportage? If you followed it closer you might see how the message changes depending on feedback. Really sly anti-muslim agenda.
 
Fullyplumped said:
I like this, though - a programme to support Muslim women to get involved in public life and politics at all levels.


- Hazel Blears on youtube
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Thing is, if the Daily Mail ran an editorial advocating rounding up all the muslims and gassing them, you just know that Hazel Blears wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with showing up on Question Time the following week justifying it as policy. Having no principles whatsover is the key to success within nuLabour and as far as I can tell their policy is dictated to them by the Daily Mail.

Equally, you could be sure that Fullyplumped would be on here being excruciatingly smug about the outrage this policy would provoke among average urbanites.
 
Is Anarchism all about having doubts about the way governments do things.. Anarchy is about not doing things by learned wrote or experience.. It's about going against fundamentals. innit.. While having to do things in a certain way or be discredited as an arsehole or fanatic..
 
As a potential Christian and more so a country of free belief theologically.. Should Britain as a country be giving credence to a religion that in no way comes close to what theoracratically or personally is generally held here..

I as a British person do not feel as an anti-theist that I should be giving a thought to any religious control.. I refuse to be theocratically controlled in any way and would like to excercise my rights in dismissing any religious belief that I fucking don't agree with or see the point of all the hurt and sheer nastyness of those using that shit to get one over on me..

If some religious twat is gonna try and excercise some control over me because of some fucking stupid sky pixie belief then I'm gonna get annoyed..

Call yourselves whatever you want but if ya start causing grieff to me an mine then no matter what name ya call yourself.. I'll just see ya as a fucking pest. and ya should know better..
 
In other words some religious fanatics have dehumanised themselves.. It's not up to me .. a complete unbeliever to try and see justification in their beliefs.. I can't.. As much as society and politics try and put a legitimacy on what they do because of theit beliefs.. It doesn't wash with me..

Anyone being shot the shit out of or blown the fuck up has my sympathy.. Those that shoot or explode remotely.. have nothing but my contempt..
 
Bernie Gunther said:
Thing is, if the Daily Mail ran an editorial advocating rounding up all the muslims and gassing them, you just know that Hazel Blears wouldn't have any problem whatsoever with showing up on Question Time the following week justifying it as policy. Having no principles whatsover is the key to success within nuLabour and as far as I can tell their policy is dictated to them by the Daily Mail.
Click to expand...
The Jewish Chronicle doesn't think she's without principles or courage, reporting that she alone stood up against the Prime Minister and Home Secretary this week in calling for Ibrahim Moussawi, media relations officer of Hizbollah to be refused a visa to enter the UK. And she seems to have won the day! No doubt someone will be along to say this just shows how Labour policy is dictated by the Jewish Chronicle.

Bernie Gunther said:
Equally, you could be sure that Fullyplumped would be on here being excruciatingly smug about the outrage this policy would provoke among average urbanites.
Click to expand...
Cheap shot, but given that I so viciously traduced fedayn and others for their sexism towards Hazel Blears I almost deserve that, though I'm not so certain that everyone would be that outraged by such a line from the Daily Mail. Still, no doubt DotCommunist would be consistent in demanding that the paper was suppressed. Right kids?
 
Hazel blears is actually a new kind of nu lab politician robo politician latest memory chip with words like hard working families,muslim,we can still win.totally useless for debating because all it can do is regurgitate the same old claptrap
 
There are a couple of practical steps to helping the problem.
The first is to publicly distance most Muslims from the type of idiot that would try to disrupt a military homecoming or preaches hate like abu nohanz and his ilk.
Make it well known that most Muslims think he's a fucking idiot.

The next is to slowly merge with UK society. While ever there are little Muslim enclaves there will always be a mystery and where ever there is something to speculate about there will be daily mailism that lead to hate.

Be part of the UK and all will be well. Don't and Powell's rivers of blood still has a chance.

Now before I get called I should add that I don't expect anyone to change their beliefs or start getting pissed down the rose and crown. Just be a normal part of the place you live not live apart.
 
DotCommunist said:
I'd take steps to curb the insidious reporting by the Murdoch press of sharia law extremities. Not that such gross misinterpretations of religious strictures shouldn't be opposed, oh no. But the highlighting of such as part of a broader anti-muslim agenda really wants addressing.
Click to expand...
i am not sure about that .. i think it is dishonest .. there are extremely reactionary elements within islam today and i don't think you get anywhere by hiding them .. as it will always come out anyway
 
sonny61 said:
Good question. Maybe if the Muslim community try a more equal rights policy for the public eye, it may help. First, the Muslim community could start Gay and Lesbian Muslim groups. I am sure there are plenty of closet gay Muslims who would love to come out, without fear from their own community.

As we know many Muslim women are happy to wear the burkha. But just in case some women are not happy wearing the burkha and staying indoors most of the time.
Perhaps the Muslim community could encourage those who are not happy following the Muslim woman's traditional lifestyle, other choices. For instance, they could organise nights out for Muslim women down town, for those Muslim women who feel like letting their hair down a bit and having a drink and a laugh. I know there are plenty of Muslim women who do this already, but I think we can safely say there are Muslim women who would love to do this, but are scared to do so.

Dare I even say, women and men worshipping together at mosques. Would that be so bad in 21st century Britain?
Women's rights, gay rights, being adopted by the Muslim community, would be a good start in helping to stop the demonisation of the Muslim community.
Click to expand...

yes thats what progressives want mate .. the question though is how do we help get to that
 
i am interested in the diffferrences between how the left organised in the East End jewish community b4 ww2 and how the left now view the muslim ( actually bengali and in other areas pakistani/gujerti communities .. the turkish kurdish muslim communties don't fit into the lefts 'plan') communities

the main differrence i see is that the left now are appealingin a relegious basis NOT a class basis to these communities .. the CP in the 1930s did not appeal to the synagogues and orgainised on an pretty class basis .. respect not only seemed to work very much thru the mosques but used keo local businessmen. while the CP did have some business support in the east end it does not appear in ANY way comparable to hwo respect operated

i appreciate that maybe the mosques are stronger now than the rabbis were then .. though i am not so sure .. the kids in TH really are far more interested in the same stuff kids are everywhere than mosque

so iguess my point is IF you relate to muslims as muslims, instead of as people who ALSO happen to be muslim as well as people who live in a particulalr area, who go to certain schools, who work in certain trades, who like this or that music, then you run the danger of dividing BY RELEGION, of accentuating the differrence of relegion, instead of finding what unites us all
 
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