How are we going to get rid of Kate Hoey

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by ash, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Here is Kate hoey on immigration:
    From London Labour luvvies betray working class heartlands tackling mass immigration

    Its clear from this her views on immigration were no different from UKIP. That she saw this as major reason for voting leave.

    With same touch that she was just saying how it is. Unlike metropolitan middle classes ( aka the chattering classes ).

    With the added piece at end to deflect criticism by saying this is just common sense.

    So summary of her views is that she is speaking up for the common sense of working people outside London.

    This kind of thing was said about immigration in 50s and 60s postwar. Why in the end government brought in immigration controls on Commonwealth citizens.

    This rhetoric is as just as nasty imo now as it was when directed at other immigrant groups back.then.

    And of course it is only brave maverick like Hoey who will speak up. Like back then.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  2. oryx

    oryx Sitting on the bock of the day

    AnnO'Neemus likes this.
  3. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  4. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    A variety of reasons. -wanting a fairer system of immigration rather than preference for Eu citizens over others from the rest of the world ( next door but one to me is first generation Jamaican immigrant and that’s one of his reasons), the anti trade union stance of the EU ( it’s now almost impossible to call a strike in Greece thanks to EU rules), the way austerity was imposed on the working classes, not wanting to be party to the creation of yet another super power - all sorts of reasons.
    Calling us little englanders is pathetic and lazy and smacks of middle class arrogance. The remain minority have done nothing to enhance the debate around leaving. You can sit in your bubble and pretend anyone who doesn’t want to be part of the neo-liberal EU is a racist or a fool, but you’re no different than the middle class idiots who led the remain campaign to failure. If everyone who voted leave was a little englander as you seem to believe UKIP would probably be in power. I repeat the fact that 1/3 of Labour voters are btrexiteers like myself. I have lived my political life supporting militant anti fascism, and fighting for socialism in my own way . I believe in internationalism but really don’t see the EU as the first step to a more egalitarian society, on the contrary when I look at the likes of mandelson, Blair, kinnock, Cameron, osbourne, Campbell etc, it convinces me that the EU is not a club I want to be part of. The Labour Party is committed to leaving, and Corbyn is a consistent leaver ( I guess you see him as a little englander), so I look forward to a snap election returning a Labour government to finish the job of extricating our country from the anti-worker EU. And as for Hoey moving to represent a leave constituency take solace from the fact that the reverse is true in the majority of our working class constituencies where the encumbant MPs are mainly remainers
    Edie, SpamMisery and The39thStep like this.
  5. Manter

    Manter Lunch Mob

    See she's going to fight it....
  6. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    A lot of party members will weigh up much more than Brexit when they decide whether they want to back her or not. As many posters on here will testify, she has never been shy to take on the blairitte council when need be, and despite the minuscule grouplet of green councillors, is still likely to be the most effective opposition to some of the councils more regressive policies. She has never had the support of more than a couple of councillors, and as the activists in Vauxhall are overwhelmingly blairittes, any replacement is likely to be in the mould of their invited annual dinner guests- kinnock, twigg, Johnson etc . so their move to deselect her means no more now than it did last time they triggered her and lost. If her long held and very public stance really is the most important issue to them, then She would lose, if however they feel her support on a range of other issues is on balance more important to them, then she would win. Don’t underestimate her immense personal support in both the party and on the estates where the bulk of our votes come from. It’s the reason why she has survived so long in the blairitte-dominated Vauxhall branch of the party
  7. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    On a related note - Kate Hoey is 72, Frank Field is 76.
    The retirement age for Judges has been 70 since 1993.
    On the other hand the age limit for Jurors was recently increased to 75 (from 70).

    Apart from possible dementia - old people are inclined to be inflexible and set in their ways.
    Nuances of Brexit negotiations are therefore likely to pass them by (I speak from experience!)

    I suppose as we do not have the death penalty back (yet) the consequences of government by Gerontocarcy are not yet fatal.
  8. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    What a load of ageist shite! So George Soros by your reckoning is likely to be suffering from dementia? People over 70 are not likely to understand the intricacies of Brexit? I don’t what older people you come into contact with, by I know plenty of people 20-30 years older than me, that hold down positions of responsibility, maintain an amazing work rate and show no signs of dementia. You’re views on the mental capacity of older people are disgusting.
    Edie, billbond and redsquirrel like this.
  9. Wolveryeti

    Wolveryeti Young Lethargio

    Seems to have accepted a few jollies from Arron Banks: TheyWorkForYou
  10. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I was being a bit harsh in previous post. I was not implying you are little Englander. However Kate Hoey reasons for supporting Brexit are imo. She's been quite open about them. Supporting Hoey as she is an Brexit MP is giving credence to her views on Britishness and immigration.

    As for your repeated attempts to portray criticism of leaving as middle class. I keep posting examples of working class people I know in London who see Brexit in negative light. Which is all the people I work with and nearly all people I know from my area.

    The idea that Brexit will bring "fairer" immigration system isn't going to happen. I heard Brexit Tory politicians trying to set Afro Carribbean against East Europeans during the referendum campaign. Trying to say that if they voted Brexit they would change to allow Commonwealth citizens here. My second generation Afro Carribbean friend here didnt buy that. He saw the hostility to recent EU immigration as similar to what his parents got when they came here. He saw leave campaign as being in large part about immigration. Some of my friends, ordinary working people, have said pretty harsh things to me about those in other parts of UK who voted leave. Including some who have like me come here from other party of UK. This't about middle class arrogence.

    If Hoey line on leaving EU was same as yours I wouldn't have such a problem with it. Its not. She is a little Englander.

    I repeat in London all the working people I know ( only two people I know are Brexit. Both for left wing reasons) see Brexit as wrong decision. Its not the same outside London. As I know from personal experience.

    I also know people who joined / rejoined Labour party because of Corbyn. They are all remainers. They aren't New Labour supporters.

    I keep hearing this line that the remainers were middle class "metropolitans" etc. Its not my experience when I talk with ordinary working people I know.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2018
  11. ash

    ash Inittogether

    Remainers are unlikely to have joined/rejoined due to Corbyn who is and always has been (back to the old Benn days) an anti EU Brexiteer - his stance on Brexit is appalling
  12. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Well I only can go on people I know. And that is the case.
  13. ash

    ash Inittogether

    I’m sure you are correct - many have flocked to Corbyn without considering or acknowledging his anti Europe stance. Labour lost the remainers the vote as they refused to campaign for the remain side. As far as I’m concerned this is the most important political issue of the day. I agree that Hoey is great on local and personal issues. She phoned my partner to discuss issues he had written to her regarding the welfare reform bill. She was the only human face of the numerous MPs, ministers and Lord that we wrote to at the time. He however feels Brexit overrides all that and I agree.
    Gramsci likes this.
  14. Puddy_Tat

    Puddy_Tat That's Puddy Tat Esq to you


    I seem to remember that - with a few exceptions - labour MPs were campaigning for remain, although most of the media concentrated on the dave v boris circus instead.

    And Jeremy Corbyn was pretty active campaigning - not on a 'business as usual' line but 'stay in the EU and make it work better for working people' line, for example arguing that NHS waiting lists are the fault of tory cuts not immigrants. (although likewise, most of the media didn't report this)

    JC was complimented by Angela Eagle during the campaign -

    (from left futures - google brings up a guardian article of similar age, but the text seems to have been edited out - maybe when she decided to challenge JC after the referendum.)

    should labour just have adopted a "we agree with dave" position and just shared platforms with him and nodded in agreement? that worked very well for them in the scottish independence campaign...

    Dennis Skinner (and a few other labour 'leave' MPs) campaigned for a pro working class leave vote, but I can't find any images of him going on jolly publicity stunts with Nigel Farrago...
    Wolveryeti, Gramsci and oryx like this.
  15. Wolveryeti

    Wolveryeti Young Lethargio

    Total bollocks. JC did fuckloads of pro-Remain speeches, just not sharing a platform with the Tories. Labour's policy during that period was unambiguously remain, and Labour voters overwhelmingly voted remain (by 65% to 35%).
    oryx and Gramsci like this.
  16. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    I expect you might think my view of the mental capacity of younger people are also disgusting.

    In fact you are just knee-jerking because Katie is singing your song.
    I was simply pointing out that there are legal age limits for judges for very good reasons.
    Unfortunately this has not arrived at Parliament yet.
    I expect you sympathise with Robert Mugabe's plight? He is lucky to have a pension with the amount of people he has killed in his dotage.
    gentlegreen likes this.
  17. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Apparently Kate Hoey is in Zimbabwe monitoring the election there according to Patrick Wintour in the Guardian Zimbabwe: UK's bet on post-Mugabe ex-colony hangs in the balance

    Apparently she is not happy about the delay in the result and the use of the army to kill demonstrators. Glad she is concerned about a free and fair election - in Zimbabwe.
  18. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    BusLanes likes this.
  19. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    This made me laugh. Its Kate for leader of Conservative party.

    Hoey for Leader
    brixtonblade likes this.
  20. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Kate Hoey this morning sitting grim faced next to Ian Paisley Jr whilst he tries to tie knots round Stephen Farry -the leader of the Alliance Party of Northern Ireland.
    This was a sitting of the Select Committee on Brexit and Northern Ireland.
    Kate did a bit of nail-polishing. Reminded me rather of Madam Defarge (who took her knitting to the beheadings in Tale of Two Cities).

    Apart from her hard hardheartedness - is Kate actually Labour or DUP?
    BusLanes, brixtonscot and Gramsci like this.
  21. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    Someone put this on the Lambeth for Europe Facebook page - following Kate voting with the government yet again this week.
    brixtonscot, blameless77 and Gramsci like this.
  22. BusLanes

    BusLanes Pedestrian

    I assume WEP are gearing up for a crack against Hoey if there is another snap election, now they've got an office in Brixton / Vauxhall
  23. CH1

    CH1 "Red Guard"(NLYL)

    WEP stood in Vauxhall in 2017 (first time after they were formed I believe)

    They got 539 votes (0.7%) - you need to get 5% of the votes to save your £500 deposit. So I guess it depends if they are feeling lucky - or rich!
    Gramsci likes this.
  24. BusLanes

    BusLanes Pedestrian

    Well they'll feel rich anyway.

    If they get out quickly and capture national media attention, which they didn't last time, that will make a difference.

    My long theory is that they would use it as a national PR stunt
  25. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    Hoey is still an immensely popular MP on the estates in Vauxhall due to the volume of case work she carries out for the residents. She’s really good on immigration and housing issues, and is the residents last defence when they are up against the actions of the right wing Lambeth labour council. She was one of a handful of Labour MPs that voted against benefit cuts, and has stood literally shoulder to shoulder with residents getting evicted by the council from Lambeth short life tenancy homes that they had lived in for decades. She voted against the criminalisation of squatting in commercial properties, and had supported residents as they fought against the demolition of their estates. The local party gave her minimal support at the last election yet she massively increased her majority as her personal vote is very solid. Many people still remember how she sacrificed her ministerial career to vote against the Iraq war, and how she refused to bow down to Blair. The idea that the WEP or any other party could dislodge her at the next election if she chooses to run is fantasy. On Europe she is at odds with the majority of the Vauxhall constituents for sure, but when it comes to the day to day issues we face in Vauxhall she is an extremely hard working and responsive local MP. If Vauxhall Labour manage to dislodge her ( they failed massively at their last attempt), the replacement is likely to be a right wing candidate in the mould of Chukka Umana as that would reflect the make up of the local party. I would rather have Kate to be honest.
    Jangleballix, Riklet and Gramsci like this.
  26. ash

    ash Inittogether

    I understand all of this - members of my family have had phone discussions with her when welfare reform was going through and would have agreed with your sentiments at the time. I do however feel that Brexit, implications on us all and her increasingly bizarre involvement with the extremist Brexiteers is far more important now and her attitude is unforgivable and untenable for someone in her position.
    CH1 and Gramsci like this.
  27. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    That’s your opinion, but she has been consistent with her views on leaving the EU over the years, so I would have been very surprised if she had belatedly shifted her position to fall in line with the Vauxhall residents. There are plenty of Labour MPs that represent the labour remainders, but very few that represent the wishes of the 1 in 3 Labour voters that voted Leave.
  28. BusLanes

    BusLanes Pedestrian

    I canvassed estates in Vauxhall in 17 and whilst will agree KH was well known and liked by long term residents there were many who don't know her. There was also little knowledge that she was for Leave. Many on the estates voted remain and were shocked when they realised she was on the Farage end of the Leave spectrum.

    Fast forward 2 years and she's gone off the deep end and now runs with the DUP /Tory whip on Brexit and I bet that is now widely known.
    Gramsci likes this.
  29. Southlondon

    Southlondon The river's there for a reason

    I also canvassed heavily on the estates at the election, and had a different experience to yours. I was with Kate when Vice journalists were present trying to get a piece together on how she was at odds with the electorate over Brexit. As we went door to door with activists from the local TRA, there was overwhelming support for her and despite their best efforts they struggled to find voters that weren’t supporting her. Brexit really was not a big issue on the doorstep despite the lical LibDems making it a focal point of their campaign. Amongst my neighbors on my estate they see her as a strong campaigner against the estate demolitions being implemented by the Local Labour Council. As an MP she has a high profile in the community unlike many local MPs that are never seen at TRA meetings. I’d still rather have her than a chukka umana or Steven kinnock type representative. Her views on BREXIT have minimal imapact in the general scheme of things
    Jangleballix likes this.
  30. Winot

    Winot I wholeheartedley agree with your viewpoint

    She’d be better off in a northern constituency.
    ash likes this.

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