Housemate problem

[Jazzz]

I'm afraid it is quite true that this is only part of the story. I haven't told you the half of it!

Perhaps I may entertain the forum with a few more examples.

The First Day
The first day we went to move in - a year and a half ago. I turn up at the letting agents for the handover to discover that Miss B (when she finally shows up) is £500 short! And of course I have no choice but to lend her the money, which luckily I have. With the 20/20 vision of hindsight, I think that should have rung some alarm bells.

The recycling
During the first year I am having a slight issue with Miss J over the location of the recycling bin - I like having it close by whereas she thinks it's better way out of the kitchen because the box gets grubby. Okay, we can see both sides to this one. Siding with Miss J (who is another story altogether) Miss B berates me for just being lazy, how much trouble is it to walk to the utility room to chuck the tin can in it? Well not very much. But then it appears it is a great deal of trouble for Miss B to recycle absolutely anything at all as I find I am continually fishing out cat food tins, plastic bottles, whatever from the dustbin. And this way I sometimes find empty tins and bottles of stuff that I had bought and hadn't even opened!

The strange mystery of the half-full dishwasher
Now this one was quite bizarre. Thank god we had a dishwasher, but she could still drive me nuts over the washing-up. Now I was well aware of Miss B's problems with loading the dishwasher correctly so that all her cat food bowls didn't come out sloshing water everywhere - also her problem detecting whether it was clean or dirty as she'd just mix the stuff up and I'd have to decant it all. And also the one extraordinary occasion where I insisted she emptied it rather than me and I got back home to find that she had emptied it - but why had we no cutlery? Closer inspection showed that she hadn't emptied the cutlery bit and had mixed up dirty cutlery with it. "I was in a rush and hoped I'd get away with it" she remarked. Get away with what, not having any cutlery?

Anyway I digress. So then, why was I starting to find the dishwasher had been put on when it was only half-full? I was totally bemused by this one. It took Miss C to point out the answer. I wasn't standing for people piling up dirty stuff in the sink and leaving others to empty the dishwasher, so Miss B had found a way around it. She'd put the dishwasher on just before she went out, however full it was - so she wouldn't have to empty it!

 

[Yelkcub]

I'm probably the only person here who feels sorry for the poor lass in question. She's in need of some decent mates, some financial lessons, she sounds really messed up and there doesn't appear to be anyone around her willing to help her anymore. Her flatmate calls her a 'bat' and wonders why he gets no respect from her.

Anyone can help a person who asks for help, but helping a rude, boisterous, selfish twat takes real skill. I hope she finds someone with that skill, coz it ain't her flatmates.
.

I noticed the stark contrast between attitudes to this eviction and other evictions discussed on the board.

 

[detective-boy]

The advice about the police not being interested is spot on. You would simply be advised it is a civil law matter and to seek advice from a solicitor / CAB. There are theoretically crimes of theft of food, damage to window, etc. but the police will not investigate them (unless they get called to a disturbance and she pisses them off to the point where they are looking for an excuse to nick her!).

The only time they would get at all interested is if she uses or threatens violence - if that is the case you can call them and if she does not calm down she is likely to get nicked for Breach of the Peace, threateneing behaviour or whatever. That said, once released they would not be able to prevent her returning.

If you throw her stuff out and change the locks, they are equally unlikely to get involved in helping her back in ... but she may well portray herself as a poor little victim and, if she convinces them, problems may ensue. They will be extremely reluctant to change the staus quo they are confronted with though - they will not force a way back in for her if she is out, they will not forcibly throw her out if she is in. It is simply not their role and they would be acting in excess of their powers.

The criminal law will not resolve the overall situation.

You may well find the tenancy agreement has some clause allowing termination for unreasnable behaviour or similar. Check it out, consult your landlord / letting agent and, if all else fails, seek advice from solicitor / CAB.

 

[Jazzz]

update - things have got worse!

She has now threatened to kill us and commit suicide. We don't think it's a serious threat but I can't rule things out now, she is acting so bizarrely. I called the police and they have escorted her to hospital. They reckon she'll be out again in a couple of hours. I've had a threatening phone call from her mum as well.

I think we are going to have to change the locks. The police basically advised us that would be a wise course of action and we had to look after ourselves, and if she kicked off at the front door we should call them.

It's all a bit sad.

 

[Wookey]

Yeah, mental illness tends to be.

Glad you're looking after her in this time of need.

Have you shared out the contents of her cupboard yet?

 

[madzone]

Jazzz, are you actually going to do anything about this or are you just going to keep moaning about it? Either kick her out or move out yourself but all this tit for tat shit isn't really helping anyone is it - least of all the woman who seems to be having some knd of breakdown

 

[Wookey]

Exactly. I warned him this lass sounded like she needed help weeks ago.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I wouldn't be too quick to judge.

Yes, she needs help. Should Jazzz necessarily be the one to give that help now? Maybe not. He has tried to hlep in the past and feels that his kindness has been thrown back at him. We are not all saints.

 

[Wookey]

We are not all saints.

I think Jazzz and his flatmate have wound themselves up into a little ivory tower of their own construction, and have failed to recognise a person on the edge through the veil of their own self-righteousness. Even through the highly biased re-telling of events on this thread I could see that their flatmate was in trouble and needed help - and what was everyone else saying?

Throw her fucking bags into the street!!

Jesus, you people don't need to be saints, just try being human once in a while.

 

[madzone]

I wouldn't be too quick to judge.

Yes, she needs help. Should Jazzz necessarily be the one to give that help now? Maybe not. He has tried to hlep in the past and feels that his kindness has been thrown back at him. We are not all saints.

I'm not being quick to judge but I'm also aware that we're only getting one side of the story here. To be honest the dishwasher story just sounds ridiculouly petty and when it gets to this stage in a shared house it can be hell. It's rarely one persons fault though. My opinion is more 'do something or stfu'

My other query has been that as this woman is actually on the tenancy contract how can it be justified to just throw her out?

 

[rover07]

Why don't YOU move out Jazzz...

 

[Wookey]

Cautionary owl here again

Just to remind everyone, we have a suicidal woman in hospital, and a flatmate who has variously described her as:

clearly cracking up

she is cracking up

you crazy bat!!

oh my god...she is going nuts!!!

she spends all her time fretting over her completely bonkers relationships

I just wanted to post that, to remind you of how Jazzz was describing his flatmate before she was hospitalised by the police, and before the distressed phone call from her family.

While we're on the subject, let's remind ourselves of Urban's collective response to this lady:

She treats you like sh!t, give her a dose of her own medicine. (AnnO'Neemus)
Tell her to get out within 24 hours or you're chucking her stuff out. Then do it. (AnnO'Neemus)
Change the locks!!(Gmarthews)
quite simply throw her stuff out into the street and change the locks.(bluestreak)
kick the silly woman out pronto.(VintagePaw)
put a bolt on the door & move her stuff to the middle of a local roundabout, then tell her where to collect it.(pogofish)
f*** her! (Anno'Neemus)
give her a dose of her own medicine.(AnnONeemus)

I'm not going to patronise anyone any further by explaining what I think. You all know what I think, I said it clearly and early enough.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Jesus, you people don't need to be saints, just try being human once in a while.

I can relate this to a 'mate' of mine with whom I eventually lost patience a few years ago. He was seriously mentally ill (he'd been sectioned a few times), and several of us tried to help keep him out of the bin. Problem was, he was acting like a total cunt towards us, and he knew exactly what he was doing - he just had a nihilistic self-destructive 'do the world a favour and kill yourself' attitude. Eventually I walked away, stopped visiting, stopped calling. Last time he saw me, he headbutted me. Last time I saw him, he didn't see me. For all I know, he's dead now, but I wasn't about to sacrifice my life to try to help him. It is sad, and sometimes we all lose.

 

[quimcunx]

As her flatmate there is very little you are going to be able to do to prevent her breakdown. Tell her mum to come and collect her stuff. She is not your responsibility. That is your home and you shouldn't have to live like that.

Wookey, I've had a multitude of flatmates who have had a variety of problems all of which have caused me problems. I've tried to advise and counsel but there is only so much I can do. I am not a counsellor by training, or by nature but I've tried. It doesn't work. At the end of the day it just means I leave work to go to what is supposed to be my home, my refuge, and it isn't. I go back to a flatmate that does fuck all around the house, leaving it for me to do. I go back to somewhere that doesn't feel at all like home for me. It gets me down and negatively affects my mental health. Meeting a friend for coffee and a chat is one thing. Having someone you barely know's problems affecting your own life and mental well-being, being in your face every night is a bit different.

 

[madzone]

As her flatmate there is very little you are going to be able to do to prevent her breakdown. Tell her mum to come and collect her stuff. She is not your responsibility. That is your home and you shouldn't have to live like that.

But can they legally do that if she's on the tenancy agreement?

 

[rover07]

If she's on 30k a year...she's not that mental. Just a bit highly strung.

 

[Wookey]

I can relate this to a 'mate' of mine with whom I eventually lost patience a few years ago. He was seriously mentally ill (he'd been sectioned a few times), and several of us tried to help keep him out of the bin. Problem was, he was acting like a total cunt towards us, and he knew exactly what he was doing - he just had a nihilistic self-destructive 'do the world a favour and kill yourself' attitude. Eventually I walked away, stopped visiting, stopped calling. Last time he saw me, he headbutted me. Last time I saw him, he didn't see me. For all I know, he's dead now, but I wasn't about to sacrifice my life to try to help him. It is sad, and sometimes we all lose.

I'm sorry you went through that.

However this bit:

He was seriously mentally ill (he'd been sectioned a few times)

and this bit:

he knew exactly what he was doing

..do not compute with me.

You can't 'blame' someone for their mental illness, or the actions they commit while ill - even if they appear to be in full control of those actions.

I'm not saying Jazzz should have swooped down to the rescue with doctors and straight jackets. But neither should he have been goading a distressed person with stupid issues about borrowed tights and dishwashers. Two onto one is bad enough, but when you are paranoid (as this lady very obviously was, and tried to explain) then it's just ignorant and cruel. And many posters here egged him on.

He's reacted completely wrongly to this, and I sincerely hope someone who knows what they are doing gets involved and stops this situation getting any worse.

 

[madzone]

If she's on 30k a year...she's not that mental. Just a bit highly strung.

Is that your professional opinion?

 

[Wookey]

If she's on 30k a year...she's not that mental. Just a bit highly strung.

And that's the kind of ignorance of mental illness that had this poor woman condemned from the start.

 

[rover07]

If this woman wants to kill herself then that's upto her. I don't think anyone should interfere.

She is crying 'suicide' just to get sympathy imho

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I'm sorry you went through that.

However this bit:

He was seriously mentally ill (he'd been sectioned a few times)

and this bit:

he knew exactly what he was doing

..do not compute with me.

You can't 'blame' someone for their mental illness, or the actions they commit while ill - even if they appear to be in full control of those actions.
.

This is a very difficult point. He carried out actions designed to upset people because he wanted to upset people.

The mentally ill can sometimes wallow in their illness - and there are times when you have to say, 'no, you know what you are doing, and that is not on'. When is it the illness and when is it just being a cunt? I don't know, and in the end I didn't want to know. Like I said, there are no winners in this situation.

 

[Wookey]

Wookey, I've had a multitude of flatmates who have had a variety of problems all of which have caused me problems. I've tried to advise and counsel but there is only so much I can do.

Papingo, my main problem was that Jazzz was refusing to admit that mental illness could be the cause of this, even at the same time as he was using the very language with which we label the mentally ill (bonkers, crazy, mad, etc).

All the while, he was exacerbating the situation, and the great and the good of Urban were spurring him on to do this.

I'm not saying he could have prevented this, I doubt very much he could. But neither should he have contributed to it, which I rather think he has.

 

[Wookey]

If this woman wants to kill herself then that's upto her. I don't think anyone should interfere.

She is crying 'suicide' just to get sympathy imho

Yes, I can see that now, Dr Persaud. How insightful of you to manage this diagnosis at such a distance.

 

[Wookey]

The Urban Mental Health Assessment team were amongst the best in the world.

 

[rover07]

She just needs to get out Jazzz's house (who imo sounds a bit of a control freak with the recycling/phone bill/cleaning thing)

My prescription...

A weeks holiday somewhere nice then move into a new flat.

 

[rover07]

Next

 

[madzone]

She just needs to get out Jazzz's house (who imo sounds a bit of a control freak with the recycling/phone bill/cleaning thing)

My prescription...

A weeks holiday somewhere nice then move into a new flat.

It's not Jazzz's house - it's rented

 

[pogofish]

Either way, Jazz is not running a care establishment, nor I think did he go into this arrangement knowing her medical history.

Again, it would be far from the first time that someone with sometimes pretty severe problems has been settled somewhere quite unsuited to them - occasionally with the full knowledge & encouragement of people who should know better.

I've lived with them, had to deal with them at work & had a truly awful time with a seriously disturbed/violent neighbour & every time, there has been someone far too willing to make every excuse to keep them there, rather tham actually do something to help/help them deal with their problems. Maybe because its easier?

 

[madzone]

Either way, Jazz is not running a care establishment, nor I think did he go into this arrangement knowing her medical history.

Again, it would be far from the first time that someone with sometimes pretty severe problems has been settled somewhere quite unsuited to them - occasionally with the full knowledge & encouragement of people who should know better.

I've lived with them, had to deal with them at work & had a truly awful time with a seriously disturbed/violent neighbour & every time, there has been someone far too willing to make every excuse to keep them there, rather tham actually do something to help/help them deal with their problems. Maybe because its easier?

Having been on that side of the fence I know I had to work to keep people housed where they were becasue there was absolutely no alternative to it.

 

[pogofish]

Even where the person had deteriorated beyond the point where they were incapable of living in conjunction with others, or were only doing so because they were clinging on to the diminishing support of unqualified, ineperienced & mainly unwilling folk who were rapidly getting right out of their depth?