Housemate problem

[littlebabyjesus]

i doubt it. they certainly wouldn't break your door down to get her back in and tbh they'll probably just try and talk to you and see if there's a reasonable solution to be had.

how long do you have to put up with her till her notice ends?

This is most certainly what they would do.

'Officer, this is my home - break the door down this minute'... it doesn't work like that.

 

[baldrick]

If it comes to it, you can speak to your Landlord and give him a months notice, then move out. You should be able to get out of the tenancy agreement with the correct notice.

what you could also do is get your landlord to serve notice on all of you but give you and your nice housemate another contract to sign. a bit more 'official' then being kicked out by your housemates.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

...well hypothetically if we did this couldn't she get the police to regain entry?

So long as you didn't steal any of her stuff, I don't think she could do anything.

The police would more than likely say it was a civil matter, unless there was any stealing of her stuff or criminal damage involved.

Tenancy/lease stuff is a matter of civil law, not criminal law. A breach of a tenancy agreement is civil, not criminal.

I'm sure the local dibble have proper criminals to catch.

If you were worried, why not phone up (from a pay phone!) a police station within the same force, but a neighbouring division, give them the hypothetical query: I'm a flatmate, I couldn't afford to pay my share the bills of my flatmates have told me if I don't move out, they're going to kick me out. I'm hoping it won't come to that, but can I stop them from just chucking all my possessions in the lobby/on the pavement? If they kick me out, can you force them to let me back in?

See what they say. That'll give you some idea as to what their legal obligations are and how they might respond.

 

[moomoo]

I'm surprised she wants to stay tbh. The atmosphere in the house can't be very pleasant if everyone else wants her to leave.

 

[Jazzz]

Thanks for all replies so far. This thread has been quite therapeutic, believe it or not there was part of me questioning if I'd been unreasonable.

Latest news she's sent the other girl a text to inform her that she hung her washing out (which she's never done before, even when asked and agreed) requesting a meeting. I think she's identified her as a potential weakness - I'm not really talking to her at the moment.

If anyone wants to help out with this thread feel free

 

[chymaera]

This includes pinching food as a matter of routine; hardly doing any housework - (you have to scream at her several times to get her to do any, and then she does it really badly); running up a large phone bill

Sounds like a pretty average teenager.

 

[Jazzz]

Sounds like a pretty average teenager.

THAT IS exactly what it is like! only she's approaching 30, all attempts to help her sort her life out go nowhere, and she ain't my kid.

thank you

 

[equationgirl]

You're feeling as if it's your fault because you're obviously a decent person.

She wants you to feel like this so you'll feel sorry for her and give in, and then it will all start again.

Be strong and get rid of her.

You're NOT being unreasonable!!

 

[Jazzz]

oh my god...

she is going nuts!!!

She came back tonight, a bit drunk, just as we were preparing for bed. Let's call her Miss B. The other girl is Miss C.

There followed about three hours of mad, pitiful ranting. It started off with her using my computer, refusing to stop when asked, then using it again. All accompanied by a bonkers argument about how horrible we have been to her and how she hates living with us but funnily enough has no plans to agree a leaving date and she might just stay until June unless we all have to move out. She's making up a load of crap about how she was willing to pay line rental for the house phone (she most certainly wasn't) how she's already paid me back for it by standing order (that was £240 for the LAST load of money I had to lend her for bills...) etc etc.

When we left her to rant by herself she chased us around the house, turning her radio on quite loudly so Miss C couldn't sleep and so the scene would continue. She repeatedly barged into Miss C's bedroom without permission, blocked the exits, and refused to leave when asked. I pushed her out and then held the door shut while she attempted to barge in again a few times, ranting all the way, but it wasn't much use because she just then turned the radio up.

We're just sitting there freaking out and then it gets comical. I shall never forget what she said next for as long as I live...

 

[Jambooboo]

I reckon you should let her stay under the proviso that she does Miss C's washing-up and gives you sexual favours.

 

[frogwoman]

Fucking hell mate, i remember you telling me about her before

If it's disrupting everyone else's lives then you have to kick her out ... although i have absolutely no idea how to go about doing this

are you able to approach your landlord about this sort of stuff?
xx

 

[Jazzz]

"I've just missed the shipping forecast because of you!!!"

Now, not only had we caused her to miss the shipping forecast, but as we were now laughing. So this was further reason to chase us wherever we went, first the living room, then we left there for my bedroom - I have a lock on my door - she ranted outside it for a while until she gets our attention with the next incredible line...

"Why are you bullying me"?

Jesus! You're the bully you crazy woman! We are now 'conspiring against her' (well, we are because you are refusing to leave) and 'laughing at her' and how horrible it is for her because she knows we are talking about her in another room.

Miss C goes to bed and feeling sorry for Miss B who is clearly cracking up and because I don't want to her to disturb Miss C who has to get up at a silly hour in the morning spend about an hour talking to her. The discussion goes around in circles, it's a load of self-pitying whine about how much he hates Miss C who has made everything go wrong and turned me against her (well she acted like a decent housemate and made me realise I didn't have to put up with non-stop crap), how she is cracking up and can't stand the current atmosphere and us 'ganging up', yet when I suggest that the atmosphere in the house will indeed be horrible until she agrees a date to move out she responds that she has a legal right to stay in the house until June and it might take that long to her to go.

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!


I'm fucking worn out

 

[frogwoman]

"I've just missed the shipping forecast because of you!!!"

Now, not only had we caused her to miss the shipping forecast, but as we were now laughing. So this was further reason to chase us wherever we went, first the living room, then we left there for my bedroom - I have a lock on my door - she ranted outside it for a while until she gets our attention with the next incredible line...

"Why are you bullying me"?

Jesus! You're the bully you crazy woman! We are now 'conspiring against her' (well, we are because you are refusing to leave) and 'laughing at her' and how horrible it is for her because she knows we are talking about her in another room.

Miss C goes to bed and feeling sorry for Miss B who is clearly cracking up and because I don't want to her to disturb Miss C who has to get up at a silly hour in the morning spend about an hour talking to her. The discussion goes around in circles, it's a load of self-pitying whine about how much he hates Miss C who has made everything go wrong and turned me against her (well she acted like a decent housemate and made me realise I didn't have to put up with non-stop crap), how she is cracking up and can't stand the current atmosphere and us 'ganging up', yet when I suggest that the atmosphere in the house will indeed be horrible until she agrees a date to move out she responds that she has a legal right to stay in the house until June and it might take that long to her to go.

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!


I'm fucking worn out

Fucking hell, that sounds dreadfully familiar ... although not as bad as that, shit, what a nightmare ...

 

[Jazzz]

She's gone up to bed but her left her radio on - the door is of course open, so the cats can come and go

 

[co-op]

Mate, you have got to sort this out. I have been there, there is no solution except to be tough. Give her notice, change the locks on the notified date, don't listen to her pleading, don't feel guilty, she is obviously a total user. Give her a chance to come and pick up her stuff when she can.

Anything else and you are utterly at the mercy of her whims.

Believe me the police won't want to know, even if it is a breach of contract or whatever, it'll be a civil matter not a criminal one. The Landlord won't care so long as the rent is paid, neither will anyone else so long as there is no violence. If the police turn up on the doorstep because of some bollocks she has told them, invite them in (so long as that's cool in terms of what you are up to inside the flat of course!) explain the situation, as soon as they realsie you are basically reasonable they will find any way they can of getting uninvolved with the whole issue asap. It will probably be logged as such, so any subsequent aggro she tries to cause will be ignored by them. They will meet loads of "victimised" nutters like her, probably daily.


Good luck, and be firm, follow through on everything you say you are going to do - people like her exist by getting away with murder, she actually needs a reality check big time, you are doing her a favour.

 

[5t3IIa]

and get Miss C a lock for her door and take the fuse out of Miss B's radio

 

[Bob_the_lost]

"Oh dear, a power cut, how terrible, i'll take a look at it tomorrow morning"

 

[Badgers]

This thread reads like the Big Brother house

 

[Jazzz]

She invaded both our bedrooms this morning to 'apologise'. Great! Lovely when you've had four hours' sleep and you have to kick her out all over again.

The penny is dropping that she has to go but it hasn't quite got there yet. I have a whinying email from her now accepting that she's been difficult but basically blaming Miss C for driving her out and suggesting that there's been a lack of 'good old fashioned communication' (I've been tearing my hair out trying to get through to you, you crazy bat). blah.

She is suggesting that she has a 'provisional date' for moving out in early March

 

[Wookey]

I'm probably the only person here who feels sorry for the poor lass in question. She's in need of some decent mates, some financial lessons, she sounds really messed up and there doesn't appear to be anyone around her willing to help her anymore. Her flatmate calls her a 'bat' and wonders why he gets no respect from her.

Anyone can help a person who asks for help, but helping a rude, boisterous, selfish twat takes real skill. I hope she finds someone with that skill, coz it ain't her flatmates.

As for Jazzz's posts, I can see you are pissed off, Jazzz, but this story is obviously only being told from your point of view, and as a dispassionate observer my gut feeling is this girl has 'done you wrong' in a very traditional shared house sense, and the pair of you have exacerbated things in an attempt to draw things to a head. 'Running in and out of our rooms without permission?' Well, she is having an argument with you at the time - whilst drunk, two against one. Of course she's running into your rooms without asking permission.

And I'm quite saddened by the number of Urbs who would so eagerly make an equal housemate homeless. And before you say I would do exactly the same, I wouldn't. I would move out myself before I threw someone onto the street. Horrendous level of ethics.

If you signed a year's contract, then live out the year. Take responsibility for that at least.

As a journalist I've heard a million stories like this, and I can assure you this one sounds as biased as a Las Vegas boxing referee.

Could we have some perspicacity, please? We risk ruining someone's life in a bid to support an Urbanite who has clearly only been telling us his side of the tale. How do we know they haven't wound her up? Has she got an alcohol problem? Have any of you ever been fucked for money with no way out, regardless of how 'well' other people think you are earning??

Jeez Louise.

Don't bother turning puce either, I shan't be posting on this thread again. It smells bad.

 

[KeyboardJockey]

"I've just missed the shipping forecast because of you!!!"

Now, not only had we caused her to miss the shipping forecast, but as we were now laughing. So this was further reason to chase us wherever we went, first the living room, then we left there for my bedroom - I have a lock on my door - she ranted outside it for a while until she gets our attention with the next incredible line...

"Why are you bullying me"?

Jesus! You're the bully you crazy woman! We are now 'conspiring against her' (well, we are because you are refusing to leave) and 'laughing at her' and how horrible it is for her because she knows we are talking about her in another room.

Miss C goes to bed and feeling sorry for Miss B who is clearly cracking up and because I don't want to her to disturb Miss C who has to get up at a silly hour in the morning spend about an hour talking to her. The discussion goes around in circles, it's a load of self-pitying whine about how much he hates Miss C who has made everything go wrong and turned me against her (well she acted like a decent housemate and made me realise I didn't have to put up with non-stop crap), how she is cracking up and can't stand the current atmosphere and us 'ganging up', yet when I suggest that the atmosphere in the house will indeed be horrible until she agrees a date to move out she responds that she has a legal right to stay in the house until June and it might take that long to her to go.

Sheesh!!!!!!!!!


I'm fucking worn out

Jazz are you sure you are not living with my Ex? That sort of shit sounds awfully familiar.

 

[Jazzz]

As for Jazzz's posts, I can see you are pissed off, Jazzz, but this story is obviously only being told from your point of view, and as a dispassionate observer my gut feeling is this girl has 'done you wrong' in a very traditional shared house sense, and the pair of you have exacerbated things in an attempt to draw things to a head.

I can promise you the relationship has been strictly platonic all the way through nor has there ever been any hint of that kind of thing.

 

[Wookey]

I can promise you the relationship has been strictly platonic all the way through nor has there ever been any hint of that kind of thing.

I'm not suggesting that. I think the issues you have with her (nicked food, phone bill, etc) are typical shared house gripes, and there are other ways around them.

I suspect that, even if you never meant to do it, you have ganged up with your other housemate and are egging the situation on to it's inevitable, and sad, conclusion.

''Invaded' our bedrooms to 'apologise''/ That tells me everything I need to know. I know spin when I see it Jazzz!

I would urge you all to get some arbitration, open the lines of communication a bit more, buy locks for your rooms. And please continue to ignore these outsiders who are telling you to chuck a somewhat vulnerable person out on the streets.

 

[pogofish]

As a journalist I've heard a million stories like this, and I can assure you this one sounds as biased as a Las Vegas boxing referee.

And I've lived with a couple of these folk & known all too many folk who have had to put-up with someone similar. Bias or not, the events described do sound very familiar.

I do agree that these folk may well have one or more of a whole range of problems but I'd guess that Jazz & co have been as much of a help as they possibly can but this is not really their job is it? Sometimes these guys can change & improve but that can often take years & IME, being kicked out one time too often can be the catalyst for things to change.

As for the "invaded the bedroom" thing. You do tend to get overprotective of your personal space with one of these leeches about, as without somewhere to retreat to, you would probably go nuts yourself!

 

[Wookey]

I'd have a lock on my door, always did in a shared house.

I really don't know what's going on or who's to 'blame' - I just think there's always more than one side to a story, and Jazzz's version of events sounds too skewed for us to be egging him on to do something drastic and illegal and arguably immoral. Parties portrayed as wholly innocent rarely are, ime.

That's all, I've nowt else useul to add. Just call me the cautionary owl!!

Twit-twoooo!

 

[baldrick]

I would urge you all to get some arbitration, open the lines of communication a bit more, buy locks for your rooms. And please continue to ignore these outsiders who are telling you to chuck a somewhat vulnerable person out on the streets.

I would agree, but I wonder if the situation has gone too far now to sort things out amicably.

And there is the issue of the money owed for bills. if she's not been paying it so far, what makes you think she will in the future? I suspect that Jazzz and his other housemate don't have a bottomless pit of money or empathy. Both run dry sooner or later.

If you want her out asap, I would suggest you give her some help with finding somewhere, she's not going to do it on her own.

 

[co-op]

And I'm quite saddened by the number of Urbs who would so eagerly make an equal housemate homeless. And before you say I would do exactly the same, I wouldn't. I would move out myself before I threw someone onto the street. Horrendous level of ethics.

I can't share your sadness. Obviously neither of us know the 'real' facts of this case - there probably isn't an objective truth to find here. But "making someone homeless"? Come on. She is a 20-something woman living in a shared house, presumably just about paying her way otherwise unable to move in in the first place. She might have an annoying couple of weeks while she sorts herself out something else, that's about it.

At the same time it sounds very much like she is an utterly selfish, money-spongeing, egotistical fool who needs some growing-up lessons in a hurry, and getting a kick out might be the best thing that could possibly happen to her.

Why should two other people sacrifice their homes to (what sounds an awful lot like) her extraordinary and anti-social "needs"? She sounds highly self-indulgent, if so, the last thing she needs is to be indulged by others.

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

...And I'm quite saddened by the number of Urbs who would so eagerly make an equal housemate homeless. And before you say I would do exactly the same, I wouldn't. I would move out myself before I threw someone onto the street. Horrendous level of ethics....

Wookey, my attitude stems from my experiences. You may have read about them on Urban. Some people take the piss and can't be helped. I've tried to help people, because people have helped me in the past, so I figure there's karma I need to pay back, but here's a taster as to what's happened:

(1) I take a vague acquaintance in. She's an addict on methadone with a dope habit. That's not my lifestyle at all, but I'm not judgemental and give someone a roof over their head. My one house rule is she doesn't smoke in my flat, if she wants to, there's a balcony. She's not at home one night, and I have a friend over who needs to crash. I go in her room to check it's okay to crash in, and I find cig burns in the bedding. She's been smoking in bed while 'gouching' (not sure how to spell it, it's when people with a habit take their stuff and become zombified). I told her I was chucking her out. She said 'What's your problem? I'll buy you some new sheets.' Erm, she could have set my flat on fire and killed me, but had no appreciation whatsoever she was in the wrong. Incidentally, she never did buy me new bedding to replace the stuff that she'd burned. Some thanks for giving her a roof over her head.

(2) I got talked into taking in a couple who were friends of an acquaintance who had to move out of a houseshare at the end of a tenancy. (I was led to believe/assumed they were looking to privately rent again and would find somewhere to live quickly.) They moved in. They told me they were on the council waiting list and it might take 5 months! Over next couple of weeks, they proceeded to basically take over my flat. They were supposed to be crashing in spare room on a short term basis (or that's what I agreed to), but put their stuff all over my kitchen and living room, basically made themselves at home with their soft furnishings and bits and pieces. When I said, erm, you do realise this is temporary, don't you? That's when I found out they expected to live in my flat (rent free, because they were supposed to be crashing in my spare room) until they got a council flat. Incidentally, I nearly lost my tenancy because I had been kind enough to take them in. They gave my address to update their council application so I was accused of taking in 'lodgers' and illegally renting out my flat during an introductory tenancy. It took a lot of explaining on my part, they were temporarily crashing in spare room and were absolutely not paying rent or contributions towards bills, that I could save my own tenancy and keep a roof over my own head. And what thanks did I get for almost losing my home?

They started having 'domestics', arguing and slamming doors. One day I went into my sitting room to find a packet of dope on the fire. I went to their room and knocked on the door, he came to the door. I said there'd been a breakin the week before they moved in and the police had been round to take a statement. The police might come back to let me know what was going on, so could they please not leave dope lying around? While I was talking to the chap in the doorway, she got up (she'd been sitting at the dressing table, which was just in front of the bedroom door, putting on her makeup getting ready for work) came to the door and shut it virtually in my face, shutting her boyfriend out into the hallway. I carried on, reiterated I didn't want drugs left lying around and left it at that. A few minutes later, the front door slams. She's gone out to work. I go to see the chap again. I tell him his girlfriend's behaviour is unacceptable (a) to slam my front door and (b) it was rude, while I was talking to them both about leaving drugs in my sitting room, for her to get up and shut the door, shutting her boyfriend out and virtually shutting the door in my face like that. He totally went off at me, I shouldn't give her a hard time as she's pregnant and she's going to have an abortion. And that's my problem... why?

I explained: When I took a couple into my home, it was temporary, they would crash in spare room, not make themselves at home and spread themselves and their stuff all over my flat. And I didn't expect to have to put up with arguments, slamming doors and domestics. I wanted them to move out. He went out, slamming the door behind him. Oh, a bit of a digression here... the other thing that transpired *after* they moved into my place, was they brought a fridge/freezer with them. It was clean and new, still had manufacturer's sticker on the door. They had told me when they left their previous houseshare, they'd taken it, had stolen it from their landlord. In these circumstances, I've told this chap I want them out of my flat, but he's gone out and I'm now too scared to leave my own flat to try to track down their friend, to get him to sort them out because they have keys and a history of stealing property from landlords; likewise, given his aggression, I don't want to be around when they pick up their stuff.

So I phone her at work and tell her I'm putting their stuff on the landing and she needs to come home to collect it/call her boyfriend and let him know. They eventually come back hours later. And the thanks I get for taking in this homeless couple (Czech girl, Manchester/Pakistani-origin guy), and putting them up rent and bill free for a couple of weeks? "You don't know what kind of Paki you're messing with. It won't be me, but you'd better watch over your shoulder, because someone's going to get you." Charming.

(3) Then there was the Bulgarian guy. He'd been renting a room from a neighbour. He'd gone away for about 6-8 weeks over summer and asked my neighbour to 'store' his stuff, and he'd expected to be back at the end of the summer and move back into his room. Except he wasn't paying for his room while he was away. His logic was that he wasn't staying there, so he shouldn't have to pay rent. Meanwhile, my neighbour who'd rented him a room still had a mortgage to pay and she'd had to rent out the room to someone else to make ends meet. He'd brought all his stuff round to my place to 'store' in my spare room for a couple of weeks before he 'moved in', because he was working away a couple of weeks. Again, he moves all his stuff into his room but expects not to pay rent because he's working away. Not a problem for me. I'm doing a course in another city and I'm coming back every other weekend and he's renting a room. He effectively has run of the whole flat while I'm away, for the price of renting a room, and I'm making up the difference and paying the rent on the whole flat. I'm effectively subsidising him renting a whole flat. He's got a bloody good deal. Except when I let him know I'm coming home (i.e. your landlady's coming, tidy up!), instead he thinks I'm coming home to act as his maid and clean up the mess he's made while I've been away. On one memorable occasion, I spend three hours on a train, pop into the supermarket at the station for groceries, head home and get home at about 9pm, thinking I'll throw dinner together and watch a bit of telly before bed. Wrong. I walk into my kitchen and there isn't a single clean pan, plate, knife, fork... every single item in the kitchen is dirty and piled up either in or by the sink. My flatmate (who I'd warned in advance that I was coming home) happens to be out. There's nothing for it. I spend two hours washing all his pots and pans before I can even begin to start cooking my own dinner. I'm not impressed, in fact I'm highly unamused.

When I next see him, I explain I'm not his mother, I'm not his wife, and I'm certainly not his maid. He explains that's his system, he doesn't wash up as he's going along, he dirties absolutely everything and then he washes up a fortnight's worth of washing all in one go. I explain his system isn't going to work in my flat because I don't want to spend three hours on a train followed by two hours of washing up his pots before I can even begin to start cooking my dinner. I point out he can do whatever he wants while I'm away, but my phoning/texting him saying I'm coming home this weekend is his cue to get the flat in order before I return. So that's that. Except another time I'm home, his girlfriend is over, they cook in the kitchen, and I'm waiting for them to finish up so I can cook my own stuff... except they cook, they eat (in his bedroom, really weird), and then they go out, leaving a trashed kitchen, and again I have to wash up before I can start cooking my own meal. Except this time, I'm washing up not only after someone who lives in my flat, but also after someone who doesn't even live there. The final straw. I explain it's not working and he's got to leave. He starts waffling about mediation. I explain there's nothing to mediate as I've told him before I'm not his mother, wife or maid, yet he's carried on the same (when home I'm back for a break from studies and to catch up with friends, not to act like his maid service). He starts telling me that I have no right to throw him out. Erm, it's my home, you've trashed my kitchen, not once but numerous times, you've disrespected me, of course I have the right to chuck you out of *my* home! Totally on a different planet. But some people are like that. They treat you like shit and disrespect you, and when you point out that's unacceptable, they act all aggrieved.

 

[jæd]

And I'm quite saddened by the number of Urbs who would so eagerly make an equal housemate homeless. And before you say I would do exactly the same, I wouldn't. I would move out myself before I threw someone onto the street. Horrendous level of ethics.

You'd last ten minutes in some of the flat shares I've had...! Yep, there's probably more to the story, and yep, the girl probably does have "issues" but, unless you want to replace the social services, the quickest way is to give her a deadline. After that, a First-class ticket to Lonsomeville, via Eviction City is the only present this Dame needs from Mr Jazzz.

As a journalist I've heard a million stories like this, and I can assure you this one sounds as biased as a Las Vegas boxing referee.

No you haven't. You heard *many* stories like this. Unless you've been spending about 15 years covering the homeless of London...

Could we have some perspicacity, please? We risk ruining someone's life in a bid to support an Urbanite who has clearly only been telling us his side of the tale. How do we know they haven't wound her up? Has she got an alcohol problem? Have any of you ever been fucked for money with no way out, regardless of how 'well' other people think you are earning??

Someone swallowed a dictionary last night. Perhaps shes just a Class A piss-taker, with a Major in Annoying the shit out of everyone...?

Don't bother turning puce either, I shan't be posting on this thread again. It smells bad.

Posted by Wookey @ 10-01-2008, 12:51 AM

 

[Giles]

I would, in one day, put all her stuff in a storage place, pay for it for a week, then buy new lock barrels and fit them, then just hand her the key to the storage place when she comes back.

Then find someone else for the room as quickly as poss.

I have had people act totally unreasonably in my house before (this bloke ended up coming home really pissed, then stood there and called me every name under the sun, told me that he hated living there and so on. I said that if that was what he felt, he should leave tomorrow, at which point he starts going on about his "rights". After physically attacking me!) and have done this.

Put your feelings aside, and take action to solve the problem. After a few hours and the expenditure of a fairly small amount of money, the problem will be solved.

She will be out, and her stuff will be out, and she won't be able to get back in.

Then, put an advert somewhere for a flatmate, and if she comes round, unconnect the doorbell and ignore her calls.

Giles..