Horrific Bike Crash In Mexico

[GarfieldLeChat]

Where does it say that that they were "racing illegally," King Ad Hominem?

And where's this child running in front of the car?

behind the other car hidden from view?

leapt backwards out of shot after realising their lucky escape?

out of shot due to the nature of the swerve they had to take to aviod the child?


you asked for a senario not a defence of the actualy picture but a senario which is what you got, so you can cool your heels with your hyperbole now can't you...

or you can continue apace with your frantic keyboard warrior bashing of cars AGAIN without having any more access to the facts of the case than anyone else does...

have you ever heard of objectivity...

as for the legality of the ROAD RACE can you find me chaper and verse where any know country in the world will allow unsupported racing on open pulbic roads because i can assure you the racing lobby of the world will be very intrested in going there as yet it's not been possible to find anywhere insane enough to allow the general public and professional racers to met and mingle on the tarmac for blindingly obvious reasons...

 

[Athos]

Perhaps you might come up with a remotely credible scenario how someone on the wrong side of the road might manage to smash headlong into a large bunch of brightly clad cyclists at high speed on a clear day if they weren't driving recklessly?

Looking forward to it.

Heart attack, stroke, fit, diabetic episode, wasp sting, brake failure, steering failure, high-speed puncture... err... there's plenty of perfectly credible alternate hypotheses to reckless driving, and no reason to accept the police's claim as an established fact.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Actually, I asked for 'remotely credible scenario'. Without a child in sight it starts to look a bit on the incredible side to me.

ahh the ever shift goalpost of notbacking down despite being shown to be wildly speculating without any access to the facts are you goign to threaten a ban as well now or advise me to get off the thread... dont' worry i'll still buy you a beer tonight

god you hate cars more than you hate captialism dontcha

 

[editor]

as for the legality of the ROAD RACE can you find me chaper and verse where any know country in the world will allow unsupported racing on open pulbic roads because i can assure you the racing lobby of the world will be very intrested in going there as yet it's not been possible to find anywhere insane enough to allow the general public and professional racers to met and mingle on the tarmac for blindingly obvious reasons...

You claimed that it was an illegal race. Can you back that up or did you just make it up?

 

[richsaint]

Just from looking at the picture, it appears as if the black&white car on the right was overtaking the cyclists, and the central car swerved to avoid it, thus hitting the cyclists.

It's not that clear in that photo but it looks to me like it has lights on the roof and some kind of logo on the bonnet, which would lead me to believe that it's the lead vehicle for the race (carrying the race judges).

The most likely reason that it's on the wrong side of the road because it's just veered over there so it could get out of the way of the oncoming drunken idiot.

 

[jæd]

Heart attack, stroke, fit, diabetic episode, wasp sting, brake failure, steering failure, high-speed puncture... err... there's plenty of perfectly credible alternate hypotheses to reckless driving, and no reason to accept the police's claim as an established fact.

Apart from the police have probably dealt with this before, have more access to blood/alcohol data, and have questioned the suspect to determine why he was on the wrong side...

Classic U75 : A horrific car accident happens and people try to find excuses for it...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You claimed that it was an illegal race. Can you back that up or did you just make it up?

can you please answer my question name one country which allows racing and public traffic ont he same public road at the same time when you can provide this confirmation then we can assertain whether the open publiclly accessable road they were on at the time of the crash was indeed a legitiamate or illigitmate race on an open public highway.

dont wriggle don't shift about post up the confirmation or accept that no sane coutnry in the world allows racing on the public highway with the public on it you insistance of winning the point not withstanding.

put up or shut up really...

 

[Crispy]

It's not that clear in that photo but it looks to me like it has lights on the roof and some kind of logo on the bonnet, which would lead me to believe that it's the lead vehicle for the race (carrying the race judges).

The most likely reason that it's on the wrong side of the road because it's just veered over there so it could get out of the way of the oncoming drunken idiot.

That makes sense

 

[baldrick]

dont wriggle don't shift about post up the confirmation or accept that no sane coutnry in the world allows racing on the public highway with the public on it you insistance of winning the point not withstanding.

put up or shut up really...

you're the one who made the claim it was illegal, you should be the one who has to prove it.

 

[editor]

dont wriggle don't shift about post up the confirmation or accept that no sane coutnry in the world allows racing on the public highway with the public on it you insistance of winning the point not withstanding.

put up or shut up really...

You claimed it was illegal. Can you back that up or not?

It's a simple enough question.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Apart from the police have probably dealt with this before, have more access to blood/alcohol data, and have questioned the suspect to determine why he was on the wrong side...

yeah like that asain looking dude who jumped over the barriers and had a heavy coat on in summer time who was going to bomb the tube... all the officers involved were experinced anti terrorist units and had delt with similar things before had stats on it yadda yadda...

Classic U75 : A horrific car accident happens and people try to find excuses for it...

or more accurately

classic Urban75: minimal imfoprmation posted up and horrifc sensationalist picture and the whole world and his wife jumps in opining about their pet hates and tryign despteratly to find some kind of causal link between them...

and then Jarhead turns up and provdes and entirely inaccurate summiseation of the thread in an attempt to steer it towards their own agenda/pet peeve...

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You claimed it was illegal. Can you back that up or not?

It's a simple enough question.

as is mine name thecountry in the world which allows road racing on public unclosed roads.

otherwise logcially a road race on an open public road anywhere in the world would be what if not legal???

we can say it together if you want...

so your proof that it's legal anywhere in the world when you are ready...

 

[richsaint]

can you please answer my question name one country which allows racing and public traffic ont he same public road at the same time.

Road racing in most countries is on the open road, even a lot of races at professional level. The most you usually get is a lead vehicle with a warning sign and marshalls with flags stopping traffic at every junction.

I remember Marco Pantani was seriously injured in major race in Italy (can't remember which off the top of my head) when a driver ignored the marshall's request to pull over for the race to come by and ploughed into the bunch.

 

[Crispy]

Garf, how do you know this road wasn't closed? This is a proper bike race, with a lead car and everything, not a bunch of randoms.

 

[editor]

as is mine name thecountry in the world which allows road racing on public unclosed roads.

otherwise logcially a road race on an open public road anywhere in the world would be what if not legal???

we can say it together if you want...

so your proof that it's legal anywhere in the world when you are ready...

You made the claim. Now stop your wriggling and back it up please.

It's an official family bike race in its third year, so it would seem highly unlikely that it's an illegal event and, as Crispy points out, the road could be closed for all you know.

Road racing in most countries is on the open road, even a lot of races at professional level.

Thanks for that. I do believe you've been pwned Garf.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Road racing in most countries is on the open road, even a lot of races at professional level. The most you usually get is a lead vehicle with a warning sign and marshalls with flags stopping traffic at every junction.

I remember Marco Pantani was seriously injured in major race in Italy (can't remember which off the top of my head) when a driver ignored the marshall's request to pull over for the race to come by and ploughed into the bunch.

erm i think you'll find that the road stockade is actualyl closing the road ahead and reopening it behind...

 

[Athos]

Apart from the police have probably dealt with this before, have more access to blood/alcohol data, and have questioned the suspect to determine why he was on the wrong side...

Classic U75 : A horrific car accident happens and people try to find excuses for it...

You've rather missed the point. I am not trying to make an excuse for the driver if he was at fault; nor am I saying that it is not possible that he was drunk, drugged and asleep. Instead, I was pointing out that it is possible that there could be another explanation. Editor asked if there could be any other credible explanation, so I listed a few.

 

[goldenecitrone]

Well, let's hope the case is thoroughly investigated and the driver responsible is given ample opportunity to explain what caused him to be involved in such a dreadful incident. Then, and only then, should they tie a couple of bikes round the cunt and drop him in the Rio Grande.

 

[richsaint]

erm i think you'll find that the road stockade is actualyl closing the road ahead and reopening it behind...

Erm, I think you'll find that only happens in major races, and very rarely at amateur level (which is what that race in Mexico more than likely is).

I'm not making this up you know, I'm speaking from experience, having raced and acted as a marshall in many races for over ten years including in France, Spain, Belgium, Holland and Denmark. Some races are on closed roads, most aren't.

Feel free to tell me I'm talking bollocks though as you clearly know better.

 

[jæd]

You've rather missed the point. I am not trying to make an excuse for the driver if he was at fault; nor am I saying that it is not possible that he was drunk, drugged and asleep. Instead, I was pointing out that it is possible that there could be another explanation. Editor asked if there could be any other credible explanation, so I listed a few.

I was responding to this bit "...and no reason to accept the police's claim as an established fact.". I'd be interested in knowing how you know more about the case...

 

[Fruitloop]

Maybe aliens landed and the driver was busy going 'look at that enormous fucking spaceship!'.

 

[Athos]

I was responding to this bit "...and no reason to accept the police's claim as an established fact.". I'd be interested in knowing how you know more about the case...

I don't claim to know more about the case than the police, but I do happen to believe in the presumption of innocence.

I guess the point I was making is that we cannot be sure that the driver is guilty of what the police accuse, simply because they say he is. If that was the case, we could do away with the courts, because anyone who is arrested by the police is guilty of whatever they say he has done. The fact of his guilt is not an established fact; I don't happen to accept uncritically every accusation made by the police as concrete fact. Do you?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

You made the claim. Now stop your wriggling and back it up please.

i made no claim i gave you a senario which was credible love which is what you asked for you want to extrapolate from that credible senario some resemblance of justification for your own hyperbole bile ridden anti car posts then go ahead but at least learn to read first eh?

It's an official family bike race in its third year, so it would seem highly unlikely that it's an illegal event and, as Crispy points out, the road could be closed for all you know.

really it's offical is it under which authroity if you'd post the credible details up...

the road could have been closed i'm guessing the other cars on it would inferr it wasn't though... what say the logic which seems to have escaped you this morn due to your rabid anti car hatred...

or not as you equally know nothing else other than a police report you are happy to take a face value

Thanks for that. I do believe you've been pwned Garf.

i do beleive you are a fuckingnutter when it comes to anything to do with cars a seemingly red mist decends and prevents you from READING WHAT'S BEEN WRITTEN or DEBATING LOGICALLY.

now then you proof of the coutnry which allow racing on open roads when you are ready...

or you can continue your childish lying and misrepresentation of others points and contiune to make yourself look increasingly foolish...

as for being pwned. you are being told how to read by a dyslexic, stroll on, stroll on...

 

[Crispy]

the road could have been closed i'm guessing the other cars on it would inferr it wasn't though.

The 'other cars' we can see are a)The pace car for the race and b) The crashing car. You can infer no such thing

i do beleive you are a fuckingnutter when it comes to anything to do with cars a seemingly red mist decends and prevents you from READING WHAT'S BEEN WRITTEN or DEBATING LOGICALLY.

Oh, and you're mr calm and considered? The two of you going at each other's throats is an ugly sight no matter which way you look at it.

 

[editor]

Oh, and you're mr calm and considered? The two of you going at each other's throats is an ugly sight no matter which way you look at it.

Err, excuse me.

I've hardly been "going at his throat." In comparison, my posts have been short, polite and to the point.

 

[jæd]

I don't claim to know more about the case than the police, but I do happen to believe in the presumption of innocence.

I guess the point I was making is that we cannot be sure that the driver is guilty of what the police accuse, simply because they say he is. If that was the case, we could do away with the courts, because anyone who is arrested by the police is guilty of whatever they say he has done. The fact of his guilt is not an established fact; I don't happen to accept uncritically every accusation made by the police as concrete fact. Do you?

No, but I would suspect the police in Mexico know more about this case then some random person posting on a UK-centric case...

 

[Athos]

No, but I would suspect the police in Mexico know more about this case then some random person posting on a UK-centric case...

I'm sure they do, as I have already acknowledged. But, once again, you're missing the point. Whether or not the police know more than me doesn't nean that someone is guilty just because they say so. Or perhaps you believe it does? Should everything the police say be taken as gospel? If the police say someone is guilty, does that mean that it's an established fact? Can we do away with the presumption of innocence, then? And the need for a trial?

Or do you acccept that the driver may not be guilty? And that it is too early to say, because the evidence against him has not been tested, and the evidence in favour of his innocence (should there be any) heard?

My point ws that his guilt has not been proven. Do you agree?

 

[Kanda]

.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

The 'other cars' we can see are a)The pace car for the race and b) The crashing car. You can infer no such thing

there's a car on the road which if closed wouldn't be on the road.

again you're assumeing the other car is a pace car, no info being given...

we simply don't have the facts...

Oh, and you're mr calm and considered?

never, that's slander you know...

The two of you going at each other's throats is an ugly sight no matter which way you look at it.

maybe however one is a poster to the site who is asking vaild question and responding to the request for a credible senario who then has his posts misrepresented and they fabricated into lies in order to justify the others point.

the other is owner editor in chief of the site who is deliberatlely misrepresenting someone elses point in order to 'win' an argument on the internet by lying about what other posters have said in order to bolster their own position.

you judge which is worse...

 

[richsaint]

I would have thought that a photograph of the driver on the wrong side of the road ploughing head on into a group of cylists on a dead straight highway with good visibility might be evidence that he's guilty of dangerous driving at the very least.