sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Nah, that's a big leap. If they mentioned paki etc in the chant then it would be racist but they don't.
Hooliganism
- Thread starter Skimix
- Start date
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
It's the same meaning with different words, it's pretty common on the racist right across Europe. Substitute 'paki' with 'Muslim'.
I don't think that makes all those singing it genocidal racists or anything, but the inference is pretty clear. The fact that the asian, predominantly Muslim too, population in Preston is in the area by the football ground is a bit of a give away too.
grogwilton
Well-Known Member
If the area has had actual suicide bombers come from it then its not racist. If it hasn't but just has a large population of muslims then it is.
Football chants are meant to be offensive
If they aren't funny then the person looks like a twat
For example, Cardiff always get called sheep shaggers, is that racism? I think it's just giving each other shit. Scousers always get called thieves, Geordies get called fat bastards etc
If they outlawed prejudice from football chants it would be a sad day
Like everything it's context, one of the main reasons football is so popular is because it is an opportunity for men to go and shout at each other. We like that. If it turns nasty, then it is quickly dealt with, England doesn't have a problem with hooligans any more. Like I said, all of the big firms seem to have gotten into drugs from my experience
If they aren't funny then the person looks like a twat
For example, Cardiff always get called sheep shaggers, is that racism? I think it's just giving each other shit. Scousers always get called thieves, Geordies get called fat bastards etc
If they outlawed prejudice from football chants it would be a sad day
Like everything it's context, one of the main reasons football is so popular is because it is an opportunity for men to go and shout at each other. We like that. If it turns nasty, then it is quickly dealt with, England doesn't have a problem with hooligans any more. Like I said, all of the big firms seem to have gotten into drugs from my experience
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
'Bomber' does not substitute for 'paki' though.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Really? So why did they sing it at Preston fans ie a town who's Asian population is overwhelmingly Muslim/Pakistani? Take your time....
iROBOT
CURRENTLY RE-BOOTING
Oh...I better point out. I'm a Londoner and have no knowledge of what's going on up north.
Although I'd say that ranting about muslims is not racism as you have a choice to be one or not, slightly different to being born a certain colour and that being the object of abuse.
Of course it shouldnt happen either way. It's not a perfect world.
Although I'd say that ranting about muslims is not racism as you have a choice to be one or not, slightly different to being born a certain colour and that being the object of abuse.
Of course it shouldnt happen either way. It's not a perfect world.
But do you think that police should arrest people for shouting 'bomber'?
They obviously have a list of words that you can't use
If they did that, they would just come up with another word
a tad generalising though. there are a number of lower league clubs that don't have a particularly noticeable racism problem but also don't have much BME support 'cos they're in towns with not many BME people.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
No I don't think they should arrest them. Areresting them doesn't acrtually deal with the racism and simply displaces it. Imho it's fans campaigns that have to deal with issues like this.
But my point is, that people are bound to find a reason to be twats to each other
Arbitrarily deciding what is and isn't acceptable is always a recipe for disaster for me
stupid kid
...
I can see where the link between "Town full of bombers" and racism lies, it goes something like, your town has many muslims, many/all bombers are muslims, therefore your town is full of bombers - however more offensive things get published all the time, it's more akin to a sardonic social commentary than hardcore racism.
I think that's a pretty tame example compared to the "Zheng Zhi, wherever you may be, you sell dodgy DVDs" chant from Charlton fans. Made all the more shocking by the fact he's one of the few players at the club who puts in an honest shift. Makes me cringe a bit when I hear it.
I think that's a pretty tame example compared to the "Zheng Zhi, wherever you may be, you sell dodgy DVDs" chant from Charlton fans. Made all the more shocking by the fact he's one of the few players at the club who puts in an honest shift. Makes me cringe a bit when I hear it.
Fedayn
Well-Known Member
Opposing racism isn't an 'arbitrary decision' it's anti-working class poison, fuck all arbitrary about it. It divides and is deliberately used to do so.
But you have to be careful
Going to the football is already way too expensive and boring nowadays. shouting at people used to be the best bit. the football is better, and you don't have to put up with racist twats, but it isn't as much fun as it was when it was out of control
Going to the football is already way too expensive and boring nowadays. shouting at people used to be the best bit. the football is better, and you don't have to put up with racist twats, but it isn't as much fun as it was when it was out of control
Andy the Don
Wise men say only fools..
Too true, what killed off hooliganism in the UK..?? Stiff sentanences, look at what the Maze Hill 7 got after Charlton v Southampton some got up to five years for a street brawl. The police are now on top of their game scanning the internet/mobile networks & using the full scope if the RIP act. You are right about a bunch of scrufy chavs in snide Stone Island & brilliant white trainers.
You can now go to football without being herded by the police, have a drink without having to watch your back & as said football is all the better for it. As someone who spent the 80's on the terraces being chased around a nasty northern town like Rochdale by a bunch of inberds whilst the police do fuck all & threan to nick you "mouthy cockney wankers" was not fun. Although we all talk about it now as if it was a great laugh.
lights.out.london
Black Flag
CyberRose
أرفع الشفرات
I think England is pretty much the safest place to watch football these days, simply because of how seriously the government/police take hooliganism. In other countries, they just get left to their own devises and the authorities don't seem to consider it a "real crime". In England, I think the desire for fighting at football is still there, or probably more specifically, the desire to belong to a powerful group of people, but it is simply just impossible for them to actually fight other gangs nowadays because the police are so good at stopping it. Shit still kicks off, but it's a much smaller scale to what it used to be like in England (and what it's like in some other countries still). I'm not so sure this has had the great effect as some would think tho. Now, if you sit in the away end, you'll notice that on either side of you in the home stands are a full gangway occupied by Matalan tracksuit cladded 15-18 yr olds who really really wanna be like the people of "Football Factory". They tend to form the bulk of modern football "firms" (who actually cause trouble) but, because the police have stamped out large organised fights, they tend to pick off random away fans wearing their team's shirt and consider that getting one over on the other team.
october_lost
It's not hip any more...
Yes it does, do you really think their commenting on current affairs? What possible relevance does it have to state the 7/7 bombers were from Leeds, other than to send a clear racist message. They're substituting their chants because of the clubs anti-discrimination policy, which would mean they would be turfed out if they uttered anything racist, so its just racism moving into a PC environment.
I find arguing otherwise is daft frankly.
What bothers me especially is this shows that banning the chants top down method actually makes it harder to deal with, if these guys would have chanted what they wanted to, other fans could have challenged them. But no, its harder to take someone apart when their racism is coded in the right language outlined by the clubs policies.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Some of the most committed supporters of Millwall were also the most fanatical hooligans. They drove them away from following Millwall with crap about swearing, singing loudly, being drunk, having a puff, it got like Belfast. Now we have loads of fly by night supporters and a bunch of loony kids from bexley. 
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
Hmmn odd that, because as an away fan going to Charlton I haven't heard any singing from the home fans whatsoever...
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Bullshit, if it doesn't mention race in any way you can't state that it's racist.
sleaterkinney
Well-Known Member
Why did who sing it?. The bloke was talking about Burnley vs Leeds.
Mr Moose
What the hell are we supposed to tell the kids?
It rather begs the question...
Are you a Hooligan? (I'll have a go if someone else starts is the never ending song of the trouble maker) or
Are you a wannabe?
I hardly ever see any fights traveling around, drinking before games, so how often is it you end up 'having a go'?
Are you in a group 'taking territory' i.e turning up at the home teams pubs and making mischief until 'unprovoked' someone tries to put some manners on you?
Or are you the unluckiest football fan in history, like a lightening conductor for trouble? How often exactly are West Ham fans in trouble at home? My guess is very rarely.
As for class - yeh sure there are some middle class hoolies, after all many middle class people mix, go to the same schools, some are bullies, some want adventure.
But c'mon hooliganism is not a middle class game. Middle class people have normally got an eye on the future - they can't afford to shrug off a record - or are too busy waving clappy sticks. It's about territory not normally defended by yer middle classes with their boots.
A lot of blokes do like fighting - its a fact. That's uncontroversial.
So in the end you like a row and you want us to know it..
