Gingerman
Is a great bunch of lads.....
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8072273.stm
Ob some-one who did'nt reconise the severity of her situtation
Ob some-one who did'nt reconise the severity of her situtation
"Honey trap" girl (south London teenager who lured boyfriend to his death)
- Thread starter alfajobrob
- Start date
If she gets life, the 6 get life and the other one is dead.....bit of a result, actually.
Am I bad?
Good result 7 x pond life off the street.
JHE
.
You'll be disappointed. They'll get out. Don't know if that'll be in 10 years or 15 years or whatever it may be. We'll have to wait and see what tariffs are set.
JHE
.
That seems a bit of an odd description. Is that how the phrase 'pond life' is usually used?
Pond life lacks intelligence and some of it may look horrible and may even be smelly, but it is also obviously and utterly harmless. If you want some animal image for these young thugs, aren't they wolves, say, rather than pond life?
In any case, there is something very very sad about such violence from such young people. Were they really hardened gangsta shits by the age of 18 or were they, as I suspect, nasty stupid little prats, little more than children, who had been so influenced by idiot thuggish gang kulcha and associated posturing and lyrics and so little influenced by anything better that they murdered thinking it OK and threw away a big chunk of their young lives?
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
It's the whole business about "respect"...
To me, "respect" is respecting your fellow human beings - meaning - not knifing them to death under the guise of macho bullshit gang culture.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
To me, "respect" is respecting your fellow human beings - meaning - not knifing them to death under the guise of macho bullshit gang culture.
But hey, that's just my opinion.
Its this bit I would fully agree on.
And, at the risk of bringing down the usual grief on my shoulders, I would argue that the very negative culture that brings about such things (another group of black youths found guilty of murder today as well for knifing a kid to death just for the sheer kicks of it) seems to be almost above any real direct criticism or action because of the hysteria about anything that smacks of racism and the unwillingness of anybody looking to make a career in the public sector wanting to take it on.
If this was white kids killing each other with such alarming regularity I can guarantee something more would be done about it.
For me its the most insidious form of racism that goes on because it comes from a sort of collective cowardice about not being willing to face up to the problem rather than the almost far more 'honest' racism of the BNP.
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
I have a few friends who are black - none of them associate with that kind of culture, so I can't really say yay or nay.
From the various stories we sadly read about every day (it seems) there does appear to be some deep problems within a disenfranchised section of youth that has no sense of direction.
But I have not a clue as to the solution to this seemingly endless cycle of violence
poster342002
PROPER leftwing socialist
This does happen in parts of Glasgow (white kids killing each other).
Thats a fair point. But that seems to be more related to an historic culture of gangs within that city.
Where as the killing that led to these boys all being found guilty...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8142435.stm
Seems to have been done for no other reason other than sheer fun.
All I know is that the teenage victim of knife crime whose name tends to get remembered is that of Stephen Laurence where as the numerous other black kids stabbed to death on Londons streets seem to be just given a passing glance by the media, perhaps another report which will give us the stunning revelation that black kids need more positive role models and then back to the same old status quo.
Its a tragedy that so many lives have been blighted for ever in these two cases and to see so many young people locked up for decades has to be seen by everybody as a tragedy on so many levels and yet there seems to be nothing really being done to stop it and I stand by my assertion that if this was a sort of crime that was predominantely carried out by white kids then there would be a lot more direct action taken to halt it.
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
What kind of direct action, do you think?
I think it has to be a mixture of more direct action with more stop and search and the Cops given some sort of metal detectors or similar along with much harsher sentances for carrying knives.
Plus there needs to be more emphasis on education within the black community. I would even say that in parts of British inner citys then having all black schools could be the way forward which would also include the teaching staff.
Get the Churches involved a lot more, along with the Mosques.
But stop white middle class people, who dont actually put their kids through the state education system, having so much involvement.
However with 16 young black kids all starting at least 15 years inside over the last 48 hours something pretty dramatic has to be done even if it means up setting some people.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
what an excellent post.
The saddest thing about this - sez the south Londoner - is the amount of young lives ruined - one way or anouther - by this horrific gang culture - the truth is that this gang culture is that the only way these kids can feel socially empowered is by gangs,
You wanna know how to end that problem? simple. give them a chance of something better in their/our lives, that gives real respect - and something to look forward to. fo' real
cos right now, that
something ain't there.
Streathamite
ideological dogmatist
sadly, 100% correct
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
I lived in Streatham summers of 88 and 89 and I never felt the vibe that exists these days. Maybe I wasn't paying attention or maybe it had yet to form but it's truly tragic what's happening.
Even more tragic is that many more will perish before a solution is found.
London_Calling
Pleasant and unpatronising
Parenting, knowing boundaries, put this tribal bollocks and the musical backdrop in some context. Then maybe what you're talking about.
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
Having said that, though; I don't believe it's entirely down to a lack of social empowerment. Let's be honest and say that there are some who just get off on the whole "glamour" of being a gangsta.
How to change their mindset?
How to change their mindset?
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
There was recently a case here where a woman, I believe a stripper or waitress at a downtown hotel, was convicted of luring a murder victim to a place where the two actual murderers, killed him. It was part of a drug gang turf war. Her sentence wasn't as heavy as theirs, but was still in the range of 10 years, if I recall correctly.
But where does that 'chance of something better' come from ?
For me it the solution has to be in the education system that actually puts some serious demands on them. I know it sounds daft but why not give them the same lessons that kids at Eton get taught ?
And why do so many 'community' projects have to focus on things such as music ?
I have always ranted on about the new Libary in Peckham. It has won awards and looks very pretty but essentially its just a building full of books.
What should have been done is a far less ambitious building built but during the course of that building it should have taken local kids and taught them pratical skills which might give them a real chance of making something of themselves as opposed to just these daft music & media courses which seem to give people totally unrealistic ambitions.
London does not need more young people to work in the Media. Those jobs are already being competed for by young middle class kids who can sponge off Mummy and Daddy. What London needs is Electricians and Gas central heating engineers and so on. Even in this recession.
All of the guys I use for my maintainence jobs all come in from the suburbs. And moan for England. If I could use some bright young kids from Peckham then perfect for them and better for me. But they aint out there.
Johnny Canuck3
Well-Known Member
Personally, I'd take mugs of seemingly hot liquid to the library, then douse the kids inside with water. This might shock them into giving up on such useless pursuits as reading, and motivate them to go pick up a hammer or a pipe wrench, and make themselves useful.
If your serious about doing something to stop these murders you need a carrot and stick approach. More things to do certainly but much much tougher punishments and educating young people to really understand what there getting into before its too late.
All of the people involved in this murder can be seen as guilty but so can they be seen as victims. Victims of a system that is geared against them.
A system designed by a horrible co-alition of guardian and mail reading attitudes...
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
An un-holy alliance, by the sounds of it. But can you expand on this - how is down to Hate & Grauniad readers, exactly?
If the Daily Mail and Guardian editorial boards had adopted radically different editorial lines several years ago, do you reckon Shakilus Townsend would still be alive?
krtek a houby
Saoirse don Phalaistín!
Clearly it's all down to the newspapers and their damn opinions...
Probably yes.
Both papers do have a very negative effect. The amount of murders of this type has gone up and bleedin heart liberalism and rancid right wing bullshit have really not helped.
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Saoirse don Phalaistín!
But who amongst the kids involved reads the views contained within these papers?
Or does it trickle down from reader to said kids?
Is there a direct exchange of views between reader and kid?
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