Home schooling

[lobster]

Its always been intriging to notice that many child prodigys have been largely been tought at home either by there parents who are proffesions or hired by someone who is.

Having no social interuption such as drugs, alchohol, sex , tv etc can only improve ones intellect.

Pablo Picasso father was a professional painter
Erik Demaine was home-schooled. entering Dalhousie University at the age of 12, and completed his Bachelor's degree when only 14.
Blaise Pascal was educated by his father who was a local judge and member of the petite noblesse, who also had an interest in science and mathematics.
Tathagat Avatar Tulsi (born September 9, 1987) of New Delhi, India, successfully passed his M.Sc. in Physics from Patna University, at the age of 12 years, two months, and 19 days, on November 28, 1999. Tulsi concedes his father as a greater genius who was never recognised. Brushing aside the accusation that his father was pushing him too hard, Tulsi says, "if papa had got the encouragement I am getting, he would have been the greatest genius today.
H. P. Lovecraft reciting poetry at age two and was writing complete poems by six.
Balamurali Ambati, M.D, Ambati graduated from New York University at the age of 13 and Mount Sinai School of Medicine at age 17, becoming the world's youngest doctor in 1995.
Steve Wozniak - From a early age understood complex electronics and created mac 1,2.
His father was a Lockheed engineer.

These are just a few examples, someone in my distant family has homeschooling because his parents are always travelling with him, he completed his gcse's at 8 or a simlar age.

Noam chomsky metions how children can grasp languages (as linguistics is his subject)at a very young age (which obviously shows in the above examples), where as a adult may take longer , there are of course exceptions.

Hopefully ive inspired some replys.

 

[the B]

Good for them, but such academic acceleration comes at a high price. For most, too high a price.

 

[lobster]

In what sense is it a too high price?

 

[rennie]

Im against home schooling... going to school is not just about getting an education... it's interacting with your peers, managing authority, learning about competition and life in general.

I would NEVER ever home school my children. of course others may beg to differ.

 

[pogofish]

Im against home schooling... going to school is not just about getting an education... it's interacting with your peers, managing authority, learning about competition and life in general.

From what I remember & experiencenced when working with kids, as well as a better overall general academic level (specialised subjects, eg sciences & tech could suffer for specific reasons), homeschooled children consistently came-in tops in studies into communication, socialisation & mixed-social skills. Amongst all age ranges & types of people. It was actually the institutionally schooled kids who generally had the problems with interaction/authority.

 

[spanglechick]

I know a few families who home school - the children are undeniably bright and articulate - but when put in large social groups with their peers (age group), they seem rather at a loss in terms of joining in - would rather talk to the supervising adults. This of course is just my experience - but I think going to schools teaches you how to cope with the iniquities and politics of informal societies. You develop a thick skin at school. I'd hate to see any child of mine go through life without that socialising experience.

 

[the B]

In what sense is it a too high price?

The weird, diverse and explosive range of experiences that come with going to school.

You are scoring communication, socialisation and 'mixed-social' skills? How do you score making your way to school and popping off for a cheeky fag beforehand and then going through the join learning experience of not getting caught for example? How about the 20 minutes a teacher turns up late and people just scrunch of paper balls and make a mess?

What about gossiping about peers, teachers, watching one fall over by breaking a chair under his weight during an exam? Or just let off a fart?

I was effectively home schooled for 6 months, not keen on it.

Not every parent has the time or ability to homeschool.


If exposing people to the terrors of authority makes them have problems with it - even better!

 

[lobster]

To bring this subject to the opposite spectrum, children who do not do so well at school for a variety of reasons, peer pressure, family problems, sickness are usually from what ive heard and experienced are given completly diffrent level of work to the point of not being usefull.

For instance children who do not do well at english gcse are given either city and guilds english or some english certificate which will not help them furthere there education, instead of helping them achive a grade in a gcse, which any student can achieve, whatever anyone says.

I dislike immensely diving children into groups, maths groups 1-6, english 3 diffrent groups, science 3 diffrent groups .

A child that is told there are going to be in a bottom group for a given subject generally will not study or be keen to study too much.

Education should be about improving the knowlege of the whole population , not targetting the bright kids to elite education and not targetting children for whatever reason did not do well with alternative almost useless qualifications.

 

[pogofish]

The weird, diverse and explosive range of experiences that come with going to school.

Not every parent has the time or ability to homeschool.

Not all kids thrive in an institutional envoronment though & for many, what you describe will produce a damaged & resentful individual. Homeschooling, where suited is an equally valid form of education.

I would agree, the parents, their skills & ability apply themselves to educating their kids is an important consideration.

My old educational employers had an unwritten policy that was utterly against homeschooling & did their utmost to avoid the legal responsabilities & made it as difficult as possible for parents to pursue this option. To the point where they would dish-out utterly misleading advice, threats & started pointless legal actions - they got their arses kicked in court several times because of it. The kids certainly didn't benifit.

At one point, every homeschooled kid in the region was put on our books & automatically ranked alongside the behaviourally disturbed, learning disabillities, abuse victims, drug/drink & any other sort of troubled you can think of. In virtually all cases, without any practical justification or evidence of problems. Their implications were clear.

So much for inclusiveness & opportunities for all.

 

[pogofish]

but when put in large social groups with their peers (age group), they seem rather at a loss in terms of joining in - would rather talk to the supervising adults.

That may say as much about the socialisation levels of the institutionalised kids as it does about the homeschoolers though? Who says kids have to join-in with those of their own age?

 

[jonH]

We start to teach children at home but when they get older school offers different opportunities. I propose an end to homework, this would give children time to learn skills from their parents and carers after school, there could even be GCSE's awarded for Home Studies.

 

[Yu_Gi_Oh]

That may say as much about the socialisation levels of the institutionalised kids as it does about the homeschoolers though? Who says kids have to join-in with those of their own age?

I agree, and the fact that these kids could converse with adults suggests that maybe they just had more advanced social skills.

 

[the B]

As I said, 'good for them'. For some it works. But it seems to be a small number.

I don't think institutional education works for many people either. It clearly fails an awful lot of them. I'm not sure home schooling would fix that for many of them.


I still think that home schooling is going to mean someone misses out on a good experience. I suspect most home schooling happens because institutional school isn't working.

Something very far from 'home schooling is best'.

I also feel home schooling leads to a massive specialisation and division of knowledge. Too much in my opinion.

 

[the B]

I agree, and the fact that these kids could converse with adults suggests that maybe they just had more advanced social skills.

Actually, I'd guess it was the adult using their existing and developed social skills to interact and help the child.

 

[mangakitten]

I've talked about homeschooling a lot with my other half, as he thinks it's a good idea and I don't. (we don't have kids as yet, we just like to speculate about the future a lot!)

He has lots of statistics and facts to prove that it's better, but something in me just can't believe that.

I think that kids get picked on for so much already - why do something to them that's going to set them out as 'weird' to other kids they may come across, so that they'll be more likely to get bullied? It's kinda like calling your kid AppleFlower or something.

I think kids can learn a lot of important social stuff from school which they wouldn't really learn at home. I also think it's important for kids to feel like they've got a life away from their parents, which I think would be hard to feel like if they're spending all their time with you.

Plus, financially... if you're at home teaching your kids, how are you going to afford anything, let alone books and science equipment and stuff for them? How could they be in school plays or sports teams and stuff if they're at home with only their siblings?

And also... kids need to learn loads of subjects. Are two parents going to really be authorities on maths, english, science, history, geography, languages, music, religious studies etc etc etc?

My other half does have a lot of convincing arguments for why it is a good idea, and there are loads of success stories... but I just can't see it working, myself...

 

[tobyjug]

Are two parents going to really be authorities on maths, english, science, history, geography, languages, music, religious studies etc etc etc?
...

They don't need to be, the entire national curriculum is availiable on interactive CDs.
Home education is also a somewhat wider issue that a parent teaching a child at home. There are several active co-operatives in Britain educating their children outside of the state system.

 

[pogofish]

It's kinda like calling your kid AppleFlower or something.



Plus, financially... if you're at home teaching your kids, how are you going to afford anything, let alone books and science equipment and stuff for them? How could they be in school plays or sports teams and stuff if they're at home with only their siblings?

And also... kids need to learn loads of subjects. Are two parents going to really be authorities on maths, english, science, history, geography, languages, music, religious studies etc etc etc?

but I just can't see it working, myself...

Quite a few of them were! But that dosen't do justice to the many parents whose decision to homeschool was sealed by school failing their kids in any number of ways.

Financial & practical support was an issue most authorities avoided like the plague. Despite an arguable legal duty to assist & very clear legal advisements to do so, they continue to avoid responsability. Authorities could do much more to provide a degree of support for more specialist subjects - eg, visiting teachers, parental advisors & non-school teaching facilities. They might also build some bridges & draw large parts of the homeschool community into civil dialogue. I don't see how this could do any harm? In fact, they could make this support available if they wanted to. We could get it for many of the troubled kids on our books, especially if they had a previous history of violence, hard drug use or prostitution but were forbidden to offer it to the homeschoolers under any circumstances.

Don't rule it out, instead, see how your kid gets on at school & if they thrive, good, if not, consider the alternatives seriously.

 

[Looby]

They don't need to be, the entire national curriculum is availiable on interactive CDs.
Home education is also a somewhat wider issue that a parent teaching a child at home. There are several active co-operatives in Britain educating their children outside of the state system.

There's a lot more to education than interactive CDs Toby.

I got very little out of secondary school and it made me bloody miserable but the answer was not pulling me out of school. My school was a shithole, the kids were nasty little fuckers, the parents were worse and half the teachers were at the end of their tether. We needed more funding, proper discipline and lots of encouragement and inspiration.

But, there were things I got out of school that I would not have had if I'd been homeschooled. My english teacher was a fucking genius and she made me love books, she gave us far more that the ability to pass an exam. There were others too but she really sticks in my mind. I don't think many parents can do that for their kids. I was a bit of a loner anyway but I'd have been much worse had I been taken out of school.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

Not all kids thrive in an institutional envoronment though & for many, what you describe will produce a damaged & resentful individual. Homeschooling, where suited is an equally valid form of education.

I would agree, the parents, their skills & ability apply themselves to educating their kids is an important consideration.

My old educational employers had an unwritten policy that was utterly against homeschooling & did their utmost to avoid the legal responsabilities & made it as difficult as possible for parents to pursue this option. To the point where they would dish-out utterly misleading advice, threats & started pointless legal actions - they got their arses kicked in court several times because of it. The kids certainly didn't benifit.

At one point, every homeschooled kid in the region was put on our books & automatically ranked alongside the behaviourally disturbed, learning disabillities, abuse victims, drug/drink & any other sort of troubled you can think of. In virtually all cases, without any practical justification or evidence of problems. Their implications were clear.

So much for inclusiveness & opportunities for all.

In our area they still are.

I was told by an education welfare officer what was 'best for my daughter' without him ever meeting her or me over the phone last week
I was also told 'she has to go to school' and you will be proscuted if you do not send her to school, if not this school then 'A' school.
I told the officer to go take a hike on the prosecution line and if he wanted to tell me what was best for my daughter then he should at least come and meet her first and assess her needs.
The issue we had withdrawn her from school over appears to be resolved, at least temporarily but I would have no hesitation in withdrawing her again should the need arise. My daughter is dyslexic and unfortunately has to go to school to recieve a meagre amount of specialist teaching provided by the LEA( which is insufficient) and we have returned her to try and get her statemented. We are accutely aware though that this will be detrimental to her emotional and probably her educational wellbeing. After homeschooling her for a couple of weeks I've already witnessed the benefits for her.The LEA on the other hand are taking the line that unless she is in school she will not be assessed for statementing becuase she HAS to be in school and seen by an ed psych in school.

Thats for her though, Homeschooling is not something I would want for my other two children becuase they do enjoy school. my elsest, being treated like shes a bit dim at school becuase she is dyslexic ( they dont have a clue- didnt even realise she wouldnt be able to read from the board despite being in posession of an ed psych's report stating her difficulties- something theyve chosen to ignore while they lump her in with slow learners, the heads shock when I said she would need her own lesson instructions on coloured paper to be able to read them-he said 'the lesson objective is -put on the top of the board- our response, she cant read the board- his reponse whaaat? of course she can read the board- SHE CAN'T ACTUALLY FFS!!!!)

Shes pissed off and demoralised becuase the message shes got from her school is that she is thick- the lowest of the low and treated differently becuase of that they just act like shes the same as all the other slow learners so they shouldnt have to treat her as if she can understand the stuff being taught to the higher achievers, she has a brain but itsnt being allowed to use it- no wonder she doesnt want to go, its not a huge leap from a servely unhappy child who is regularly distressed and the realisation we could do a MUCH better job ourselves and if it werent for the statementing process I would be

 

[_angel_]

In our area they still are.

I was told by an education welfare officer what was 'best for my daughter' without him ever meeting her or me over the phone last week
I was also told 'she has to go to school' and you will be proscuted if you do not send her to school, if not this school then 'A' school.
I told the officer to go take a hike on the prosecution line and if he wanted to tell me what was best for my daughter then he should at least come and meet her first and assess her needs.
The issue we had withdrawn her from school over appears to be resolved, at least temporarily but I would have no hesitation in withdrawing her again should the need arise. My daughter is dyslexic and unfortunately has to go to school to recieve a meagre amount of specialist teaching provided by the LEA( which is insufficient) and we have returned her to try and get her statemented. We are accutely aware though that this will be detrimental to her emotional and probably her educational wellbeing. After homeschooling her for a couple of weeks I've already witnessed the benefits for her.The LEA on the other hand are taking the line that unless she is in school she will not be assessed for statementing becuase she HAS to be in school and seen by an ed psych in school.

Thats for her though, Homeschooling is not something I would want for my other two children becuase they do enjoy school. my elsest, being treated like shes a bit dim at school becuase she is dyslexic ( they dont have a clue- didnt even realise she wouldnt be able to read from the board despite being in posession of an ed psych's report stating her difficulties- something theyve chosen to ignore while they lump her in with slow learners, the heads shock when I said she would need her own lesson instructions on coloured paper to be able to read them-he said 'the lesson objective is -put on the top of the board- our response, she cant read the board- his reponse whaaat? of course she can read the board- SHE CAN'T ACTUALLY FFS!!!!)

Shes pissed off and demoralised becuase the message shes got from her school is that she is thick- the lowest of the low and treated differently becuase of that they just act like shes the same as all the other slow learners so they shouldnt have to treat her as if she can understand the stuff being taught to the higher achievers, she has a brain but itsnt being allowed to use it- no wonder she doesnt want to go, its not a huge leap from a servely unhappy child who is regularly distressed and the realisation we could do a MUCH better job ourselves and if it werent for the statementing process I would be

I really feel for you (and your daughter). Local authorities seem to be on a mission to make you do as you're told and sod the human cost.

Feel free to PM me about it cos I know!

 

[toggle]

Actually, I'd guess it was the adult using their existing and developed social skills to interact and help the child.

not necessaraly, the homeschooled 12 year old i was chatting to earlier today was perfectly capable of expressing himself to adults and to his own peers. I crtainly wouldn't say he had underdeveloped social skills. he can have problems dealing with large groups when it gets into a row, but it's not just homeschooled kids that can find a 10 kid shouting match intimidating.

with the things home schooled kids are supposed to be missing out on, who says they don't take part in sports, there ae sports clubs for kids run outside of schools, as there are drama schools, art classes, youth groups and all sorts.

Don't assume that a kid has little or no interaction with their peers because they do not attend a school.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

These supposedly 'wonderful' social interactions kids supposedly experience at school I firmly believe are questionable.Where else does bullying occur with kids if not at school? Its the only place a child cant walk away and choose not to return if they wish

 

[tobyjug]

There's a lot more to education than interactive CDs Toby.

.

I fully realise that but given the number of totally uneducated children coming out of the state system at the end of 12 or more year being educated by the state I think home education is not quite the bad thing you percieve it to be.
The other plus is if you can manage to keep children away from certain bad influences until they are 18 it is highly unlikely they will take up certain bad habits after 18.

 

[LilMissHissyFit]

My daughter responds far better to interactive CD's than books, alot due to her dyslexia, ist easier for her to take a raspberry sound and a red light and have another go than have a 3/10 at the end of a written exercise which has taken her all lesson and which she cant have another go at.
So long as she's learning concepts and can be tested on them and she learns reading and writing in their own right does it REALLY matter that she doesnt learn by reading and writing everything down?

 

[the B]

with the things home schooled kids are supposed to be missing out on, who says they don't take part in sports, there ae sports clubs for kids run outside of schools, as there are drama schools, art classes, youth groups and all sorts.

So a selective shot of some school aspects is ok?

Why the difference?

 

[the B]

My daughter responds far better to interactive CD's than books, alot due to her dyslexia, ist easier for her to take a raspberry sound and a red light and have another go than have a 3/10 at the end of a written exercise which has taken her all lesson and which she cant have another go at.
So long as she's learning concepts and can be tested on them and she learns reading and writing in their own right does it REALLY matter that she doesnt learn by reading and writing everything down?

For some, the rigidity of the school system is unsuitable and home schooling is worthwhile.

For many, it is more than suitable.

None the less, I don't think people would deny the value of having peer interaction - and in my mind - the more of it, the better... where possible.

 

[tobyjug]

None the less, I don't think people would deny the value of having peer interaction - and in my mind - the more of it, the better... where possible.

Just run past me what are the advantages of peer group interaction. (I did not like schoolchildren when I was one).

 

[BEARBOT]

people posting on this thread might be interested in the organisation "education otherwise"(google it)
they have get togethers for the parents and kids being homeschooled
so they can meet other like minded people who for whatever reason are taking a different approach to education.they also provide info/resources for parents looking into the idea.

i feel mixed about the idea of home schooling,i dont have kids myself but the 2 families i know who kept their child at home were quite disfunctional(which sadly colours my opinion of it,
homeschooling a great idea in theory if the parents are committed/capable.

tho im sure very loving families who properly educate their kids do it..sadly the 2 mums i know of who kept their kids out of school have mental health probs so didnt/cant take on this responsiblity.tho in one families case her son was victim of a bully and the school was dead rough, tho i dont think keeping him home to play computer games all day is completely helpful for his development either..

the second family i wont even discuss,cos then it will seem like im against the IDEA.i think it CAN work if the parent is motivated to teach the child properly AND if the local school is awful and the family cant afford a fee paying school.

 

[Looby]

My daughter responds far better to interactive CD's than books, alot due to her dyslexia, ist easier for her to take a raspberry sound and a red light and have another go than have a 3/10 at the end of a written exercise which has taken her all lesson and which she cant have another go at.
So long as she's learning concepts and can be tested on them and she learns reading and writing in their own right does it REALLY matter that she doesnt learn by reading and writing everything down?

I quite agree, and for children that are clearly being failed in the mainstream school system of course parents/LEA should look at other options but I still believe that many students would miss out by being home schooled.

I also believe that the more we 'give up' on the state system as a lost cause the less likely it is to improve, of course this is very easy for me to say without being a parent.

Was it Harriet Harman who was slated for sending her child to a fee paying school whilst encouraging parents to stick with the state system? It's very easy to have strong views until it's your child falling behind or being bullied.

Ask me again in 10 years how I feel I guess.

 

[FridgeMagnet]

Just run past me what are the advantages of peer group interaction. (I did not like schoolchildren when I was one).

It teaches you basic social interaction skills that are harder to grasp once you're older, and the lack of which can make you very miserable?

I prefer the idea of children learning things at both home and school, myself. That's how I will certainly go if and when I have any kids. I learnt an awful lot from my parents but I also learnt an awful lot at school. I think the former helped the latter too.

I think kids do definitely get too much homework though, which interferes with them learning things outside school. Even when I was younger I remember my parents saying that I was getting too much pointless stuff, and they were certainly not anti-education in any way. Children these days get even more than I did I'm told.