ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
I'm not arguing to support privilege. That'd be obvious to most people, but I suspect you'll need to read my post a few times before you "get it".
Hierarchy of Oppression
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I'm not arguing to support privilege. That'd be obvious to most people, but I suspect you'll need to read my post a few times before you "get it".
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
I disagree - perhaps among the w/c whose families actually imbued the aspiration to go to uni, but my own experience was more that many of the people in the community I grew up with simply saw uni as something 'we' didn't do, that leaving school at 16 and getting a job was a more responsible thing to do etc. One of the most memorable conversations I had with a neighbour was when I was 15 and she asked me what I wanted to do 'when I'd left school in a few weeks' and I told her that I wasn't, I was going to uni, and she said 'Our sort don't go to universities, do you think you're above us all then?'
kyser_soze
Hawking's Angry Eyebrow
True enough.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
tbaldwin said:
Eh?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Fruitloop said:
The problem with that is that some parents used to , in anticipation of Tarquin and Jemima going to uni, take out massive HP agreements or second mortgages to reduce their core income. It meant that some people who didn't actually deserve or need state assistance got it.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Never experienced that at all, although I didn't stay on at school, I did my higher ed out of my own pocket, and later in life, but I had a few contemporaries from the Arndale estate in Wandsworth (called something different now, I believe, a spot of "gilding the turd") who went straight on, and most people were made up for them that they might have got on the path out of the shit-hole.kyser_soze said:
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
I'll say it again: Go back and read my post properly. That's not what I argued.
Are you this thick for a bet, or is it natural?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Which bit, the percentage of over-12s, or the logic?tbaldwin said:
Most people who call themselves "socialists" believe in levelling-up, you're espousing levelling down. Just like the tories have for the last 70 years.
Well done.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
1-2% is obviously not entirely accurate, it is a minority of the worlds population tho.
I don't know a single socialist who doesn't campaign for vastly improved primary and secondary education as well as for tertiary ed. Only tb seems to believe that doing so is impossible. Odd bugger
I don't know a single socialist who doesn't campaign for vastly improved primary and secondary education as well as for tertiary ed. Only tb seems to believe that doing so is impossible. Odd bugger
ViolentPanda said:
I don't really understand why he annoys you quite this much, but then its non of my buisness.
To be perfectly honest my last post was a bit pointless, more a product of being pissed off with the world than anything else.
Mind you, now that we're simultaneously on to subjects of higher education and posting styles...
It strikes me that its much easier to self-educate these days with the internet, and that boards like this (broadly speaking) and sites like wikipedia (treated with caution) offer as much in the way of education as a univerisity degree. The question of actual training is very different of course, but in a purist education-for-its-own-sake sense I can't get romantic about university education. It might be a little pretentious but I think it would be healthy to regard boards like this as being partly education centres (of a sort) and we can think of ourselves as being educators/students (in a way) and that it would be good to think about how to go about this in the best way.
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
Two things, his dogmatism, and his unbending cconviction that he's right, even when he's proven wrong.Knotted said:
True.
In terms of self-education (and, for that matter, home education) the internet has certainly made research easier, and I'd broadly agree with your quantification of the quality of material being similar.
My problem is that we have a situation in the UK (and, IMHO, many other countries) where critical thinking skills aren't taught until higher education, whereas if they were taught as part of standard (non-sixth form) secondary education, then people would be provided with the tools necessary to self-educate to their hearts' content.
I don't think it's at all pretentious to say that bulletin boards may, very broadly, act as educational sites, insofar as they often draw people into proximity with ideas and concepts that they might not usually come across. I know I've pretty much been an eternal student in terms of continually and actively seeking to add to the sum of my knowledge, and boards like Urban have sent me down intellectual avenues I might otherwise have not bothered exploring.
Vocational and technical training and self-education is, of course, another thing entirely. It's hard to self-educate when there's so little access to the building blocks of basic technical training nowadays.
ViolentPanda said:Two things, his dogmatism, and his unbending cconviction that he's right, even when he's proven wrong.
True.
In terms of self-education (and, for that matter, home education) the internet has certainly made research easier, and I'd broadly agree with your quantification of the quality of material being similar.
My problem is that we have a situation in the UK (and, IMHO, many other countries) where critical thinking skills aren't taught until higher education, whereas if they were taught as part of standard (non-sixth form) secondary education, then people would be provided with the tools necessary to self-educate to their hearts' content.
I don't think it's at all pretentious to say that bulletin boards may, very broadly, act as educational sites, insofar as they often draw people into proximity with ideas and concepts that they might not usually come across. I know I've pretty much been an eternal student in terms of continually and actively seeking to add to the sum of my knowledge, and boards like Urban have sent me down intellectual avenues I might otherwise have not bothered exploring.
Vocational and technical training and self-education is, of course, another thing entirely. It's hard to self-educate when there's so little access to the building blocks of basic technical training nowadays.
My view is that all higher education is essentially vocational even if it isn't treated that way. If you do an academic degree you are basically being trained as an academic. I could go on but it really deserves its own thread and to be perfectly honest, although I've got strong views on the subject, I haven't really put them into a coherent whole in my mind, so maybe another time...
ViolentPanda said:
I think a lot of people will agree with you on this VP.
But i would say that my views are pragmatic. Cos i believe that the majority of people should decide what happens in this world not me not you not any elite....
Perhaps i'm a Dogmatic Pragmatist?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
tbaldwin said:
You say your views are pragmatic because you believe that "the majority of people etc etc"?
How does that make your views pragmatic? It makes your views the opposite of "pragmatic", it makes them idealistic.
Get yourself a dictionary, you total fucking gimboid.
(shakes head in despair that balders has yet again totally arsefucked the English language)
Donna Ferentes
jubliado
Is "gimboid" in the dictionary?
ViolentPanda
Hardly getting over it.
So you can stop embarrassing yourself.tbaldwin said:
Consider yourself whatever you like.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Nah, you would never want to stop embarrassing yourself. It's your raison d'etre.
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