Herne Hill news, chitter chatter and gossip

Discussion in 'Brixton' started by choochi, Jun 9, 2014.

  1. shakespearegirl

    shakespearegirl just worked out taglines

    It could become a type of kite mark, like Buy British. Something you’d chose over the alternative for the benefit it gave to people/community/country... perhaps something you be prepared to pay a premium for
    brixtonblade likes this.
  2. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Fair enough. ‘Cut out’ is maybe the wrong phrase. Let’s say difficult choices for those that are principled.

    I don’t live in Brixton I live in Tulse Hill and about 90% of my weekly shopping is done in the Co-op, who I know took steps to increase wages two years ago. They also have put quite a bit of funds into the Norwood Food Bank which I think is great.

    It does seem that certain small startup businesses do however get a disproportionate amount of grief on here when discussing this kind of issue, while others get barely a mention.

    A business in Brixton (beer thread) that *does* pay the LLW is being vilified for taking a minority investment that will allow it in turn to take on more local employees at presumably LLW rates. Just spotting some contradictions I’m trying to understand.

    Can’t see anything too objectionable about that point. Maybe others can.
    friendofdorothy likes this.
  3. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    No worries.

    Of course some of my responses are personalised. I’m responding to the views of others. Is that not ok?
  4. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    I genuinely think that’s a great idea. The challenge will always be the fact that it will undoubtedly come at a premium. Like green energy tariffs. But at least people will have a choice.
  5. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Do they really? So which new small startup businesses have been given some sort of green card on this issue on these boards? And can you name them?

    And let's talk about this "disproportionate amount of grief" comment. What is the nature of this "disproportionate amount of grief" that has supposedly been dished out to any business in this thread? Back up your claims please.

    Completely irrelevant. That discussion was about whether a business could still claim to be an independent brewery when they've flogged off 49% of their company to the second biggest brewery in the world, who have an annual revenue in the many billions. It's clearly an issue because one shop now refuses to stock their beer because they don't feel that they are truly independent.

    No one criticised them for their pay rates because that wasn't the fucking topic under discussion. :facepalm:

    (*the 49% is writ large because saying 'minority investment' paints an entirely different picture.)
    Gramsci likes this.
  6. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    I see what you mean but for me paying premium isn't always that feasible.

    I also use the Phone Coop as my internet provider. They are accredited Living Wage employer. Have been for some time. They arent imo any more expensive than other big companies.

    Same with Lidl. Its not that expensive compared to other big supermarkets.

    Living Wage should not have to mean paying a premium. If the two companies above can do it why can't others?. One is small (Phone Coop) and one big (Lidl). They both are successful business.

    Another small company I use is Skoob bookshop. A very small concern who pay Living Wage.
    Last edited: Jul 3, 2018
    friendofdorothy likes this.
  7. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Wrong. See post above.
    editor likes this.
  8. Smick

    Smick Strictly Second Class

    I’ve always found Lidl to be quite a bit less expensive than the others. It’s where I do 90% of my shopping, the other 10% being at Waitrose when they’ve knocked down their prices on short date items. I believe that they treat their staff well also.
  9. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    It all your thoughts are compartmentalised into different threads and every issue exists in isolation then you may have been doing this too long.

    Let’s shut this discussion down and forget the complexities.
    alcopop likes this.
  10. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Ok. Wrong in some cases. That’s fine!
  11. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Why don't you address the points you just brought up?

    You claimed that some some new start up small businesses have been given an easy ride here.
    Well, which ones are they?

    You also claimed that others had received a "disproportionate amount of grief".
    Could you name them and give examples of all this "grief" they received please?
  12. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Don’t worry. If you can’t remember all the small businesses on the Brixton board that have received significant grief then I can’t help you.
  13. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    This is the Herne Hill thread. If you're unable to back up your earlier claims just say so.
  14. discobastard

    discobastard Well-Known Member

    Poor show.
  15. teuchter

    teuchter je suis teuchter

    Problem is, it doesn't necessarily capture how good an employer they are. The wage is only one part of how well staff are treated somewhere. What kind of rosters are they expected to work to, what other benefits do or don't they get, workload and so on.
  16. brixtonblade

    brixtonblade Well-Known Member

    True , but I'd rather know than not.
  17. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    I really can't see any possible objection to asking if a newly arrived business is paying the Living Wage or not. I'm not demanding people boycott the place, but it's good to see where they stand on this issue amongst all the on-trend PR guff and media that inevitably accompanies a new launch.
  18. shakespearegirl

    shakespearegirl just worked out taglines

    As I said earlier, it would be good to know if ALL businesses are paying LLW. Doesn't matter if they are new, old, local or national.
  19. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    You can look on their website and find out. You'll find it a VERY disappointingly short listing for central Herne Hill - as it not just two, both Oxfam bookshops (although that doesn't mean some businesses not on the scheme may not be paying the equivalent, or more, of course - although I'm not too hopeful on that score) .
  20. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

    That will only tell you people who have registered their business as a LLW provider on that site.

    The same lack of reporting applies to Brixton, where the 4 banks are recorded, and then the UK & London Community Foundations are obviously there. Pretty much nothing else - in an area where there's a higher density of SMEs and larger businesses.

    So basically, that data means nothing.
    friendofdorothy likes this.
  21. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    Why wouldn't you register if you were a LLW provider?
  22. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

    Perhaps you don't know there's a scheme/site to record it on, perhaps you don't have the time to be constantly updating websites, perhaps its less important than a hundred and one other things...

    The site only records 1600 london businesses or charities etc who pay it, which is less than the actual number
  23. shakespearegirl

    shakespearegirl just worked out taglines

    To be fair, my business pays the LLW and I haven't got around to registering yet! We aren't a consumer facing business though and it is onn my long list of things to do.
  24. editor

    editor Forked with electrons

    What is the actual number?
  25. Ms T

    Ms T Honey-coloured ramparts

    The Oxfam shops are run by volunteers, so it’s presumably Oxfam in general that pays the LLW.
    friendofdorothy and editor like this.
  26. snowy_again

    snowy_again Slush

    Sorry - a bit like the people who don't have the time to register their LLW on the LLW site, I've not got the time to dig through and find the exact number again.

    Their twitter's here if you want to ask them: Living Wage Foundation (@LivingWageUK) on Twitter
    T & P likes this.
  27. alex_

    alex_ Well-Known Member

    It’s a pretty good start though.

    I’d imagine on the Venn diagram of awful employers and LLW payers there isn’t much intersection.

    There is obviously a big difference between awful employers and awful companies.

  28. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    Up to a point. The criticism I have of sections of the voluntary sector is that not all are what I would call volunteers.

    I know someone ( unemployed) whose worked "voluntarily" in various charity shops or get his benefits sanctioned. This includes Oxfam.

    Shop managers are often paid workers.

    There is grey area in charity sector of who really qualifies as "voluntary" worker.
  29. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    And good thing those volunteers put all that work in so Oxfam workers can fund party life in other countries. :rolleyes:
    alex_ likes this.
  30. Gramsci

    Gramsci Well-Known Member

    If a business wants to become an accredited Living Wage employer they will ask about for example use of zero hours contracts.

    FAQs | Living Wage Foundation

    Its a difficult balancing act. The Living Wage Foundation is a NGO that's been successful campaigning group.

    How far should they go in adding additional rights to workers?

    Keeping it straight forward to a Living Wage for employees money per hour is right tactic imo.

    Its not something that can be easily disputed. Its rational estimate of what an hours wages should be to live a life not just survive. To be able to participate in society not spend all ones time worrying about how to pay basic bills.

    Even then I've seen it disputed here. Ie t the Living Wage Foundation must have a political agenda or that people should talk to employers however "distasteful" that is.

    Living Wage Foundation simple straightforward message that hourly pay should be set at rationally set amount shows what right wing bollox any criticism of it is. Right wing bollix masquerading as man of the world fairness.
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2018
    editor likes this.

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