Help, please!!!!

[GarfieldLeChat]

I presume that for quickness sake you missed out the fact that your dad had been drinking or whatever and was not in a fit state to drive legally. In which case, fair enough.

What would anarchists do about drunk drivers?

take the positive lead off the car battery... problem solved ... No if the drunk drive can work out how to lift the bonnet make it not collaspe on top of them (thus having the car eat them...) and how to reconnect the terminal without it falling off or being lose then they can prolly still drive safely...

besides with this method, every drunk arse hanging out of a bonnet collasped car is a prime target for people to kick it to remind them why they shouldn't drive drunk...

who is the collective anarkissed you is talking too??

 

[trabuquera]

Thing is though you can't fight crime by being in the police you can only fight crime by resolving the majority issues of poverty...

If you want to help the community the join a housing project, landscaping project, substance misuse project teen pregancy project, the NHS, these are welfare of the community things not a force designed and ocistrated to be the buffer between property and people, the haves and havenots... that's precisely what the police were invented for and what they have never devated from....

oh fffs.
Let me pose you a question. you are walking down the street at night and see a women being assaulted. (OR, if you prefer - you come home one night to find someone's kicked your door in and stolen everything you own.)

Do you
A) join a collective community body or landscaping project, or
B) call the police?

I agree with you that LONG TERM solutions to crime need to look at deeply rooted inequality, poverty, bla bla bla. However, in the short term, people (INCLUDING poor people, who are the majority of victims of criminals) need protecting from some nasty, conscienceless and occasionally very violent offenders. And that is what the institution of policing SHOULD be for. What do you suggest, cups of tea and counselling all round?

 

[Stobart Stopper]

I'm 44. I have 5 kids, two of whom are now grown-ups and have seemed, for the last few years, to have become reasonably well-adjusted members of society. They have shown themselves to be well-mannered, liberal to a fault, hard-working and upstanding young men. Until now. My second son has told me that he is determined to eschew a fine job collecting refuse which has paid him well, prevented cholera and rodent infestations, and generally made the community that he lives in a nicer place. Apparently that's not enough for him. He wants to become a policeman, and enforce the most insane social system that humanity has ever come up with.

This is tearing our family apart. He just put the phone down on me.

I know it must be hard being the son of an anarchist, and I've tried to be gentle with him. But when he said, "Look, I've got a mind of my own, Dad!" and I replied "Do you think they'll give you a fucking job with that kind of attitude?" he put the phone down on me.

I thought I was doing ok a being a Dad, but this too much to bear. What can I do?

We went along to collect my husbands long service medal earlier this year, one of the cops there was one of the first to go into the tunnel at one of the tube bombings in 2005, he tended the injured and helped carry some of them out. You seem to be forgetting things like this. Looks like you need to grow up a bit and let the lad do what he wants to do.
I am sure he will make a brilliant copper.

 

[likesfish]

rob banks
that way your fighting the man
and pigs won't take the son of a crim easy

 

[guinnessdrinker]

spike him with drugs just before he goes for his first interview.

 

[glenquagmire]

A friend who works in a rather troubled school in East London was describing a conversation with their (SWP) union rep. A fellow teacher had been attacked and had some belongings stolen by one of the regularly difficult kids and my friend was going to call the police about it. His friend, the (wet, middle class) union rep said that "we shouldn't cooperate with the police as they are tools of oppression".

What world do these people live in? Perhaps somebody could explain what should be done instead?

 

[London Boy]

Thing is though you can't fight crime by being in the police you can only fight crime by resolving the majority issues of poverty...

Poverty does not cause all crime nor will the eradication of poverty see the eradication of crime.

And before you say anything more, I have lived in a third world country, seen shanty towns and people starve and suffer poverty that just does not even exist in England, yet their crime rate is no where near the levels of England.

Also crimes like rape and terrorism are not caused by poverty, but have other causes.

You cannot view everything through the prism of class, thats why I find politics like socialism and anarchism to be lacking in substance given their dogmatism towards materialism and 'class analysis'.

 

[samk]

Isn't a bin collector like just part of the system of a throwaway consumerist society so that is just as bad a job as a cop?

 

[CyberRose]

Telling your son what he can and cannot do sounds more like the actions of a fascist than an anarchist!

At the end of the day, 1) it's up to him to do what he wants to do, 2) being a policeman is considered a good job by sane people and 3) perhaps he, like many others that join the police force, want to help and do good for their community

 

[bluestreak]

You cannot view everything through the prism of class, thats why I find politics like socialism and anarchism to be lacking in substance given their dogmatism towards materialism and 'class analysis'.

aren't you working for 3.90 an hour? and you think socialism and class analysis are lacking substance?

many lulz!

turkeys voting for extra christmasses *shakes head*

 

[ViolentPanda]

I won't mention what you seem to be. It's probably best that way. So I should support him in whatever he wants to do, should I? Blanket, unconditional support? What if he grows bored of being one of capitalism's bouncers, and decides to pursue a career in mass-murder? What shall I do then? Cheer him on?

Nah, you finger him to his ex-workmates and see which way they jump.

 

[ViolentPanda]

A friend who works in a rather troubled school in East London was describing a conversation with their (SWP) union rep. A fellow teacher had been attacked and had some belongings stolen by one of the regularly difficult kids and my friend was going to call the police about it. His friend, the (wet, middle class) union rep said that "we shouldn't cooperate with the police as they are tools of oppression".

What world do these people live in? Perhaps somebody could explain what should be done instead?

While calling the police "tools of oppression" is an accurate description of part of their role, the swappie misses the point that their role includes a few socially useful functions.

Unfortunately those useful functions have never included twatting racists with their truncheons.

 

[ViolentPanda]

Poverty does not cause all crime nor will the eradication of poverty see the eradication of crime.

He didn't claim it would. I think you'll find that's why he talked about resolving a majority of causes.

And before you say anything more, I have lived in a third world country, seen shanty towns and people starve and suffer poverty that just does not even exist in England, yet their crime rate is no where near the levels of England.

Which means absolutely nothing unless you put it into some kind of comparative context (which you haven't).

Also crimes like rape and terrorism are not caused by poverty, but have other causes.

You catch on quickly, don't you?

You cannot view everything through the prism of class, thats why I find politics like socialism and anarchism to be lacking in substance given their dogmatism towards materialism and 'class analysis'.

Hmm, and exactly how much anarchist or left politics have you actually studied, to make that judgement?
The "prism of class" has a great deal of utility for analysing economic and social issues, care to mention any other "prism" whose field of vision has such utility?

 

[Urbanblues]

Unfortunately those useful functions have never included twatting racists with their truncheons.

Sounds perverted; is it even legal amongst consenting adults?

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Poverty does not cause all crime nor will the eradication of poverty see the eradication of crime.

never said it did. pointless statement #1.

And before you say anything more, I have lived in a third world country, seen shanty towns and people starve and suffer poverty that just does not even exist in England, yet their crime rate is no where near the levels of England.

bully for you i have spent time in nearly every continant which would be consdiered thrid world and spent time in the context of abject poverty, however as far as i'm aware they aren't involved in helping the communtiy of the OP or his son joining their police force...

Placing England in the same context as a mud hut village in the western sahara is about as logical as comparing juniper bushes to space shuttles. Pointless statement #2.

Also crimes like rape and terrorism are not caused by poverty, but have other causes.

Well rape has cuase of disempowerment and the need to feel empowered now whislt each indivual case is of course different it may well haev aknock on effect that if you empower people and take them out of poverty giving them their own lives to live instead of soul crushin spritless mindless capitalist wage slavery they may well be less inclined to go out and attempt to reclaim that power they feel deprived of... for some but not all cases however again this is a strawman comment.

Terrorism however is a non existant non defined crime persay: If you can provide a defintion of terrorism which is universally agreed upon then i can of course then debate with you whether the nonexistant thing is in fact a crime. If you are talking about random acts of violence aren't caused by poverty then again you need to look at that in closer detail. As well as providing a better defintion of what the hell you are talking about, good luck on that thus far the US/UK/UN and event he respective organisations within them haven't come to a consensuss on that defintion, hence the use of term insurgancy which can be defined (although to my mind is being misapproprated to be a euphamism for terrorism)... Pointless comment #3

You cannot view everything through the prism of class, thats why I find politics like socialism and anarchism to be lacking in substance given their dogmatism towards materialism and 'class analysis'.

yes you can because it is and i'm going to proably get a kickin from some people for this and can't beleive that i would ever say these words it is a class war on all levels. the general population squermishes around and pays no head to the level of coruption on the upper decks who then orcastrate the new squermishes for the general population... be it arrrghhhhh sex, arrrrghhh booze, arrrrrrrgghhhhh think of the children, arrrgghhhhhh consume,

etc etc...

The fact you think that we can remove ourselves from what is a class struggle is naive ...

 

[ViolentPanda]

Sounds perverted; is it even legal amongst consenting adults?

Yes, police officers excepted (too many incidents of auto-eroticism, what with the political views some of them hold ).

 

[GuruYoghourt]

That depends almost entirely on how transparent it is to you, surely?

 

[GuruYoghourt]

Well, I'm new to this, and I was replying to something on the previous page...I can see that it looks like a silly thing to say now. However...

 

[GuruYoghourt]

Look. There's no police force before capitalism. Capitalism, with its class-division, needs hard people to enforce the expropriation. With violence if necessary, and without question. My kid won't get in. Especially when they find out who his Dad is!

 

[Blagsta]

I'm 44. I have 5 kids, two of whom are now grown-ups and have seemed, for the last few years, to have become reasonably well-adjusted members of society. They have shown themselves to be well-mannered, liberal to a fault, hard-working and upstanding young men. Until now. My second son has told me that he is determined to eschew a fine job collecting refuse which has paid him well, prevented cholera and rodent infestations, and generally made the community that he lives in a nicer place. Apparently that's not enough for him. He wants to become a policeman, and enforce the most insane social system that humanity has ever come up with.

This is tearing our family apart. He just put the phone down on me.

I know it must be hard being the son of an anarchist, and I've tried to be gentle with him. But when he said, "Look, I've got a mind of my own, Dad!" and I replied "Do you think they'll give you a fucking job with that kind of attitude?" he put the phone down on me.

I thought I was doing ok a being a Dad, but this too much to bear. What can I do?

don't feed it

 

[TremulousTetra]

A friend who works in a rather troubled school in East London was describing a conversation with their (SWP) union rep. A fellow teacher had been attacked and had some belongings stolen by one of the regularly difficult kids and my friend was going to call the police about it. His friend, the (wet, middle class) union rep said that "we shouldn't cooperate with the police as they are tools of oppression".

What world do these people live in? Perhaps somebody could explain what should be done instead?

Is that all they said? Surely if they are a proper SW member they said a lot more.

 

[GarfieldLeChat]

Look. There's no police force before capitalism. Capitalism, with its class-division, needs hard people to enforce the expropriation. With violence if necessary, and without question. My kid won't get in. Especially when they find out who his Dad is!

don't be daft there was a class system long before capitalism and the industrial revolution came along...

 

[glenquagmire]

Is that all they said? Surely if they are a proper SW member they said a lot more.

The rest was probably drowned out by the noise of unruly kids. He's a nice bloke, this Swappie, but can't control a classroom either.

Don't cooperate with the police indeed.

 

[TremulousTetra]

The rest was probably drowned out by the noise of unruly kids. He's a nice bloke, this Swappie, but can't control a classroom either.

Don't cooperate with the police indeed.

Hey teacher, LEAD THOSE KIDS ALONE!

but my is more serious point is, it sounds like your friend has quoted him/her without full context. I'm sure he/she saidsaid other things like, what's the point in getting the state involved, they only make things worse, it is a fact that something like 80% of the people in prison have been through the "childcare" system.

I think all the arguments SW, anarchists, the left in general, make about state institutions being stools of the oppressors, oops Freudian slip I meant tools of the oppressors, have a pretty well research basis in fact. However, we probably have to admit we do not really have an alternative in place yet.

 

[mk12]

So I should support him in whatever he wants to do, should I?

Yes.

 

[GuruYoghourt]

don't be daft there was a class system long before capitalism and the industrial revolution came along...

I never said otherwise. Class-division begins with the advent of private property as the basis for human society. But you'll find that capitalism gives rise to a police force.

 

[GuruYoghourt]

Funnily enough, mk12, I drove to Huddersfield today to pick the son up. He's currently sitting opposite me, making plans for a career as a suicide bomber. He's glad that you think I should support him in it!!!

 

[GuruYoghourt]

Hey teacher, LEAD THOSE KIDS ALONE!

but my is more serious point is, it sounds like your friend has quoted him/her without full context. I'm sure he/she saidsaid other things like, what's the point in getting the state involved, they only make things worse, it is a fact that something like 80% of the people in prison have been through the "childcare" system.

I think all the arguments SW, anarchists, the left in general, make about state institutions being stools of the oppressors, oops Freudian slip I meant tools of the oppressors, have a pretty well research basis in fact. However, we probably have to admit we do not really have an alternative in place yet.

Since 1904, unlike any group on the left, the world socialist movement has put forward a practical alternative to the insanity of capitalism.

 

[mk12]

How many people have taken up that alternative?

 

[mk12]

Funnily enough, mk12, I drove to Huddersfield today to pick the son up. He's currently sitting opposite me, making plans for a career as a suicide bomber. He's glad that you think I should support him in it!!!

Good example.